Very true Satish ji, leaves put me in some doubt as they appear to be
intermediate, but if you can see the plant again leaf size, number of
flowers in infl., length of infl. and fruit width can be conclusive. lobed
leaves rather suggest C. bignonioides. Who knows it may be a hybrid of two
as genetic barriers between the species seem to be week in this genus.
By the way it is vicariance (and not Vicariaceae)
--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Satish Phadke <[email protected]> wrote:
> Many thanks Sir ji
> For the key as well as the info about Vicariaceae.
> I had my doubts about the ID as the shown tree possessed the characters of
> both. The pattern of spots appeared more close to that of C.speciosa but the
> rest of the characters match more with C bignonioides.
> The leaf bigger and sometimes lobed which is seen in some of my pictures
> and the flower spots much darker made me think it to be C.speciosa as seen
> in the link. The fruits of my tree are also long 40cm and more than a cm
> wide.
> Well the tip of leaf.............I can't decide where to fit. Will try to
> take some more pictures!
> http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/casp12.htm
> Dr Phadke
>
> On 9 June 2011 19:55, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Satish ji
>> I am not too sure but this may not turn out to be Catalpa bignonioides.
>> Perhaps Satish ji can recollect and apply this key more accurately:
>>
>> C. bignonioides
>> C. speciosa
>> Leaves 12-20 cm long, ill smelling when bruised Leaves 15-30
>> cm long, odorless, long acuminate
>> abruptly acuminate
>> Flowers in broadly pyramidal 20-25 cm long panicles Flowers in
>> few-fld 15 cm long panicles
>> Flowers white with two yellow stripes and thick Flowers
>> white, inconspicuously spotted inside, lobes spreading
>> purple-brown spots.
>> with frilled margin
>> Pod about 6 mm thick
>> Pods 12-20 mm thick.
>>
>> Here are some links for C. speciosa
>>
>> http://www.missouriplants.com/Whiteopp/Catalpa_speciosa_page.html
>>
>>
>> http://www.humanflowerproject.com/index.php/weblog/poodle_dog_and_other_biting_flowers/
>>
>>
>> http://biology.missouristate.edu/Herbarium/Plants%20of%20the%20Interior%20Highlands/Flowers/Catalpa%20speciosa.JPG
>>
>> And some for C. bignonioides
>>
>>
>> http://biology.missouristate.edu/Herbarium/Plants%20of%20the%20Interior%20Highlands/Flowers/Catalpa%20bignonioides%20-%201.jpg
>>
>>
>> http://toptropicals.com/pics/garden/m1/Podarki5/Catalpa_bignonioides805_063OlgaB.jpg
>>
>> Interestingly C. ovata (Chinese or Eastern Catalpa) and C. bignonioides
>> (Common catalpa, Indian bean) are two far separated species that show the
>> phenomenon of Viccariance. For those interested more, here is information
>> from my book.
>>
>> *Vicariance*
>> The phenomenon of disjunction in some genera may often result in two very
>> closely related species of a genus occupying different geographical regions,
>> so that under natural conditions they would never meet. Classical example is
>> provided by two species of Platanus, P. orientalis growing in Mediterranean
>> region and P. occidentalis of North America. The species are quite distinct
>> in vegetative and floral morphology and have long been treated as distinct
>> species without doubts ever being raised. In places, however, when specimens
>> of these species were grown together, they readily interbred, producing
>> hybrids, which were not only fertile, but also intermediate between them.
>> Obviously extended geographical isolation had developed morphological
>> differences, but no reproductive barriers. Such closely related species
>> growing in different geographical regions constitute vicariants or
>> vicariads, and the phenomenon as vicariism or vicariance. Another
>> significant example is met in the genus Catalpa, C. ovata growing in China
>> and Japan, and C. bignonioides growing in North America. Other examples
>> include Viola cazorlensis of Spain and V. delphinantha of Greece,
>> Convolvulus lanuginosus of France and Spain and C. calvertii from Crimea and
>> S. W. Asia. Vicariance may often involve more than two species as in genus
>> Cedrus, C. atlantica of Atlas mountains of Morocco, C. brevifolia of Cyprus,
>> C. libani of Lebanon, Syria and Turkey, and C. deodara of the western
>> Himalayas, all well separated geographical regions.
>> Vicariance may evolve in a number of ways. A taxon may migrate to a new
>> area and evolve into a new taxon there. A formerly widely continuously
>> distributed taxon may, similarly, become separated into different areas and
>> there undergo divergent evolution. There may also be parallel evolution of
>> two taxa from common ancestor in two different areas. Theoretically this may
>> also result from convergent evolution under similar environmental
>> conditions, but this false vicariance, which may result from superficial
>> resemblance, can be easily detected and rejected.
>> The phenomenon of disjunction and vicariance has received renewed
>> interest in the recent years with the utilization of principles and
>> techniques of cladistic analysis in the studies of distribution patterns,
>> resulting in the establishment of field of cladistic biogeography or
>> vicariance biogeography. Using this method, cladograms of taxa are
>> constructed, and the names of the taxa at branch ends are substituted by the
>> areas of their distribution, forming so-called area-cladograms. A pattern
>> can be repeatedly constructed using different groups of organisms, and
>> compared for true representation of relative origins of floras (or faunas)
>> of the areas concerned. The area-cladograms can be represented on a map, and
>> areas linked with lines called tracks. The procedures have generated lot of
>> interest with clearer ideas about continental drift and better understanding
>> of the concept of plate tectonics.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
>> Retired Associate Professor
>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089
>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 3:37 AM, Satish Phadke <[email protected]>wrote:
>>
>>> A big tree from Bignoniaceae : Observed in Mountainview ; planted on 8th
>>> Jun 2011
>>> I think this is Catalpa speciosa.
>>> Very similar to Chinese Catalpa (Catalpa ovata) posted earlier by Sing
>>> Sir in Jul 2010 from Kashmir
>>> Dr Satish Phadke
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
