Hehehe... Phragmatic. Good point though. Nothing is more complicated than perception, right?
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Sinyal Bagus XL, Nyambung Teruuusss...! -----Original Message----- From: "Alidjaja Ivan" <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:40:42 To: <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [Indo-StarTrek] Re: Misteri Waktu dlm kehidupan kita nyata = terjadinya interaksi dari hal2 yg luar kita dengan ke 6 indera kita. Jika tidak ada interaksi, maka itu tdk nyata. apakah holodeck nyata? ya apakah imajinasi itu nyata? ya apakah mimpi itu nyata? ya -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 31. maaliskuuta 2009 15:33 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Indo-StarTrek] Re: Misteri Waktu dlm kehidupan kita Sepertinya begitu Ivan. Yah, mohon maaf kalau demikian. Hehehe Oya... Apa pendapat Ivan ttg 'nyata'? Yg bisa kita lihat? Kita sentuh? Bumi ini? Alam semesta? Bgmn dengan 'mimpi'? Bgmn dgn 'imajinasi'? Apakah hanya krn kita bisa lihat, sentuh, dengar, maka hal itu 'nyata'? Hehee.. Sorry kalo kedengerannya 'gila'. Sent from my BlackBerry(r) smartphone from Sinyal Bagus XL, Nyambung Teruuusss...! -----Original Message----- From: "Alidjaja Ivan" <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:22:55 To: <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [Indo-StarTrek] Re: Misteri Waktu dlm kehidupan kita Sepertinya Eri dan Roy ngomongin dua hal yg cukup berbeda.. Biar nyambung, mesti disamakan dahulu, minimal terminologi-nya :-) - -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 31. maaliskuuta 2009 15:06 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Indo-StarTrek] Re: Misteri Waktu dlm kehidupan kita Trims sekali buat ilmu fisika quantumnya bung ER (ngomong2 sy blm tahu namanya mas, met kenal). Kelihatannya terminologi kita memang agak berbeda soal dimensi ini. Dimensi yg saya maksud itu jauhhh di luar dimensi kita. Picard cs jg blm sampe travel ke sana he3. Mungkin baru si Q yg udah ke situ kalo di ST sih. Pengertian "subspace" aja mnrt pendapat saya sih msh di dimensi kita, dimensi-3. Spatial-dimensions (brane) pun masih merupakan materi2 penyokong dimensi kita, (FYI, jmlhnya 21, bkn 10 - again, no reference, I just knew). Tapi masing2 namanya sy ngak tahu krn sy ngak mempelajari secara khusus. Misalnya, salah satu "brane" yg saya tahu (maaf kalo ternyata terminologi ttg brane ini beda pula): * saya skrg sdg memegang sebuah gelas berisi air. Saya saat ini berada di dapur rumah saya di Bandung. Waktu menunjukkan pkl. 15:00. Nah, menurut pendapat para trekkies sekalian, pkl 15:01 nanti, apa yg terjadi dgn gelas ini? # so? Jika "brane" TIME itu linear, dan hanya satu, siapapun seharusnya tahu dong apa yg akan terjadi? Kan sudah pasti "garis"nya? Kenapa koq ngak pada tahu? Karena blm terjadi? Karena 'future'? Tetap saja, future jg akan jelas dong jika TIMELINE betul2 "line"? Maka harus ada "brane" lainnya, yg sangat penting, untuk menyelaraskan CHAOS tsb: CHOICE. Harus ada brane berupa "pilihan", maka saya, dlm contoh kasus di atas, "memilih" untuk ... Dan disusul dengan brane lain yaitu REASON. Yah itu sih pendapat, semua berhak mengeluarkan pendapatnya ttg ilmu maupun persepsi. Ok, silakan berpendapat lainnya para trekkies indonesia. Salam Roys. Sent from my BlackBerry(r) smartphone from Sinyal Bagus XL, Nyambung Teruuusss...! -----Original Message----- From: "ER [Energy Revolution]" <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:34:25 To: <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [Indo-StarTrek] Re: Misteri Waktu dlm kehidupan kita Hehehe tapi kalo anda mengajak kita untuk; ---> Kalo ngebahas dimensi 3 dan hukum2 physics, ayok. Perlu diketahui bahwa Teori fisika yang ada sekarang sudah sampai pada penggabungan Fisika Relativitas dan Fisika Quantum, dimana menghasilkan sebuah teori pamungkas bernama "M Theory" Dampaknya adalah: - Gravitasi Force ditemukan di alam Quantum. - dengan demikian tidak ada lagi Quantum jitter atau Quantum state extreme fluctuation. Konsekuensi dari itu semua adalah, The Nature must have 10 spatial-dimensions (or "brane"). And 1 time-dimension. Harus ada 10 dimensi ruang dan 1 dimensi waktu supaya alam ini bisa eksis. Nah, pembahasan fisika tidak bisa dibatasi di 3 dimensi-ruang saja (3 brane). Karena Fisika sudah mengenal 10 dimensi ruang. Salam, ER ____________________________________________________ Visit our special site for The New STAR TREK Movie: ttp://www.indo-startrek.org/promo/STXI/ Save Paper! Save Trees! Before printing, think about the Environment. Support Energy [R]evolution Now! www.human-earth.blogspot.com http://www.solargeneration.co.cc/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Indo-StarTrek] Re: Misteri Waktu dlm kehidupan kita Yup. Karena selama masih 'bisa' di'konsep' , pasti bukan kebenaran yg hakiki, yg sejati, karena TUHAN itu unlimited, tak terbatas, tdk bisa dikonsep, tdk bisa dijelaskan. Makanya mendingan ditutup aja pembahasan ttg Tuhan dan spiritualisme. Kalo ngebahas dimensi 3 dan hukum2 physics, ayok. Salam Roys Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone from Sinyal Bagus XL, Nyambung Teruuusss...! -----Original Message----- From: "ER [Energy Revolution]" <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:17:54 To: <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [Indo-StarTrek] Re: Misteri Waktu dlm kehidupan kita OK, then You brought the topic and you are closing it. It's fine with me. Actually, gw beruntung bisa sempat baca, berdiskusi dan mengalamai. Banyak sekali konsep yang diperkenalkan. Sepertinya "Tuhan" punya banyak channel yang justru membingungkan makhluknya. Tapi sebenarnya semua itu bisa dipersimple menjadi SATU kebenaran yang hakiki. Salam, ER ____________________________________________________ Visit our special site for The New STAR TREK Movie: ttp://www.indo-startrek.org/promo/STXI/ Save Paper! Save Trees! Before printing, think about the Environment. Support Energy [R]evolution Now! www.human-earth.blogspot.com http://www.solargeneration.co.cc/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 1:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Indo-StarTrek] Re: Misteri Waktu dlm kehidupan kita Ya itulah masalahnya. Dijelasin jg ngak bakalan percaya deh. Musti ngalamin dan "lihat" sendiri. Ntar aja japri deh kalo mau cerita2 soal panggung spiritual mah. Hehe.. Di sini mendingan bahas soal dimensi 3 aja. Itu jg masih amat sangat luas kan? Bumi - tatasurya - galaksi - universe - dimension. Tuh masih seluas itu. Jangankan ngomongin dimensi, bumi aja blm dieksplore seluruhnya. Jangankan ngomongin bumi, manusia sendiri aja belum sepenuhnya bisa dimengerti. Baru 15% aja dari otak kita yg bisa dipelajari. Tuh kan... Hehehe Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone from Sinyal Bagus XL, Nyambung Teruuusss...! -----Original Message----- From: "Alidjaja Ivan" <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:53:34 To: <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [Indo-StarTrek] Re: Misteri Waktu dlm kehidupan kita Hm...bisa dijelasin lebih lanjut ga? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 31. maaliskuuta 2009 11:03 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Indo-StarTrek] Re: Misteri Waktu dlm kehidupan kita Sayangnya saya ngak punya 'referensi' bung ER. Panjang, lebar, tinggi, waktu, itu semua msh di dimensi 3. Dunia 'jin' itu dimensi 1 & 2. "Dewa dewi" itu kira2 di dimensi 200an, tergantung... Kita di dimensi 3 menganggap para mahluk itu 'luar biasa' dan menyebutnya dewa dewi. Sent from my BlackBerry(r) smartphone from Sinyal Bagus XL, Nyambung Teruuusss...! -----Original Message----- From: "ER [Energy Revolution]" <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:27:38 To: <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [Indo-StarTrek] Re: Misteri Waktu dlm kehidupan kita 300 dimensi? Saya bisa merekomendasikan anda beberapa buku yang menyebutkan bahwa dimensi-ruang ada 10 dan dimensi-waktu ada 1. Apakah arti kata "dimensi" menurut anda? Bagaimana anda bisa mengatakan bahwa dimensi ke-5 adalah batas fisika? Sedangkan fisika saja bisa menerangkan mengapa harus ada 10 dimensi-ruang. Bisa beritahu saya referensi anda? Atau ini pengalaman pribadi? Satu lagi, mohon penjelasannya tentang "para dewa dewi". Salam, ER ____________________________________________________ Visit our special site for The New STAR TREK Movie: ttp://www.indo-startrek.org/promo/STXI/ Save Paper! Save Trees! Before printing, think about the Environment. Support Energy [R]evolution Now! www.human-earth.blogspot.com http://www.solargeneration.co.cc/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 10:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Indo-StarTrek] Re: Misteri Waktu dlm kehidupan kita To boldly go where no man has gone before... Semesta (universe) kita ini, in which no one has ever travel, hanya 1 lapis dimensi saja (dimensi 3) dari lebih 300an dimensi yg ada di 'keberadaan' - existance. Keberadaan ini jg hanya 1 dari sekian banyak 'keberadaan'2 lainnya. Jadi sulit dibayangkan, seberapa kecilnya kita, manusia. Satu hal yg pasti, TUHAN YANG SESUNGGUHNYA HANYA SATU. Jadi sebaiknya kita tidak usah berdebat ttg hal ini. Semua MAHLUK2 yg lebih 'tinggi' dari kita, apapun sebutannya: dewa, malaikat, prophets, Q, apapun, teteplah MAHLUK, CIPTAAN, CREATION. PHYSICS itu ya cuma di dimensi2 rendah saja. Di atas dimensi 5 saja sudah "beyond physics" karena hukum fisika sdh tidak berlaku untuk bbrp hal. Di dimensi 'para dewa dewi', samasekali tidak berlaku hukum fisika kita. (That's my opinion though) Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone from Sinyal Bagus XL, Nyambung Teruuusss...! ------------------------------------ ============[[email protected]]=========== [Indo-StarTrek] Indonesian Star Trek Community http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indo-startrek "...to boldly go where no Indonesian has gone before." ------------------------------------------------------ Website: http://www.indo-startrek.org Forum: http://www.indo-startrek.org/forum Friendster: http://www.friendster.com/isc2006 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37387153891 =/\= ================================================= =/\=Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ ============[[email protected]]=========== [Indo-StarTrek] Indonesian Star Trek Community http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indo-startrek "...to boldly go where no Indonesian has gone before." ------------------------------------------------------ Website: http://www.indo-startrek.org Forum: http://www.indo-startrek.org/forum Friendster: http://www.friendster.com/isc2006 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37387153891 =/\= ================================================= =/\=Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ ============[[email protected]]=========== [Indo-StarTrek] Indonesian Star Trek Community http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indo-startrek "...to boldly go where no Indonesian has gone before." ------------------------------------------------------ Website: http://www.indo-startrek.org Forum: http://www.indo-startrek.org/forum Friendster: http://www.friendster.com/isc2006 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37387153891 =/\= ================================================= =/\=Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ ============[[email protected]]=========== [Indo-StarTrek] Indonesian Star Trek Community http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indo-startrek "...to boldly go where no Indonesian has gone before." ------------------------------------------------------ Website: http://www.indo-startrek.org Forum: http://www.indo-startrek.org/forum Friendster: http://www.friendster.com/isc2006 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37387153891 =/\= ================================================= =/\=Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ ============[[email protected]]=========== [Indo-StarTrek] Indonesian Star Trek Community http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indo-startrek "...to boldly go where no Indonesian has gone before." ------------------------------------------------------ Website: http://www.indo-startrek.org Forum: http://www.indo-startrek.org/forum Friendster: http://www.friendster.com/isc2006 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37387153891 =/\= ================================================= =/\=Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ ============[[email protected]]=========== [Indo-StarTrek] Indonesian Star Trek Community http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indo-startrek "...to boldly go where no Indonesian has gone before." ------------------------------------------------------ Website: http://www.indo-startrek.org Forum: http://www.indo-startrek.org/forum Friendster: http://www.friendster.com/isc2006 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37387153891 =/\= ================================================= =/\=Yahoo! 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