*Carakasaṃhitā* 1.30.1 (which can be dated to the first century CE) refers to the word *sūtra* with the meaning “[corpus of authoritative] knowledge” in a list of synonyms in a quite general way: *tatrāyurvedaḥ śākhā vidyā sūtraṃ jñānaṃ śāstraṃ lakṣaṇaṃ tantram ity anarthāntaram* (ed. Jādavji Trikamjī Ācārya (ed.), *Caraka Saṃhitā by Agniveśa. Revised by Caraka and Dṛḍhabala. With the Āyurveda-Dīpikā Commentary of Cakrapāṇidatta. *Repr. of the ed. Bombay 1941, p. 189b). For the author of this passage, brevity of expression apparently was not an important characteristic of a *sūtra*. __________________________
PD Dr. Philipp A. Maas Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter (Research Associate) Institut für Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Universität Leipzig ___________________________ https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas Am Di., 11. Mai 2021 um 16:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < [email protected]>: > If I remember, the term *sutta *is found in a passage describing the > views of one of the Ājīvikas (*suttagul̥e khitte*), where it clearly > refers to a thread. Is the term *sutta *as a kind of text found anywhere > other than in the titles of texts? In other words, does the word *sutta *as > a kind of text belong to the oldest stratum of Pali, or is it only a sort > of editorial usage? > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > > > On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 6:52 AM Uskokov, Aleksandar via INDOLOGY < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Interestingly Śaṅkara gives a similar illustration in his BSBh >> 1.1.2: vedānta-vākya-kusuma-grathanārthatvāt sūtrāṇām; vedānta-vākyāni hi >> sūtrair udāhṛtya vicāryante; "The sūtras ae for knitting the flowers that >> are the Upaniṣadic passages; for, the Upaniṣadic passages themselves are >> examined through the sūtras." >> >> One benefit of reading *sutta* as *sūkta* is that it is no longer >> mysterious why Brahmanical sūtras are so economical and Buddhist having so >> much repetition. Later Brahmanical definitions all associate *sūtra* with >> being short and having few worlds and syllables. >> >> Best wishes >> Aleksandar >> >> Aleksandar Uskokov >> >> Lector in Sanskrit >> >> South Asian Studies Council, Yale University >> >> 203-432-1972 | [email protected] >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* INDOLOGY <[email protected]> on behalf of >> Lubin, Tim <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 11, 2021 9:22 AM >> *To:* Rupert Gethin <[email protected]>; >> [email protected] <[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] The Buddhist term sutta >> >> >> But this is not really much to support *sutta* < *sūkta*, since the >> regular Pāli form parallel to *sūkta* includes the glide -v-, as Skt >> *ukta* ~ Pāli *vutta* and similarly in other MIA languages, which all >> seem to preserve the initial v- of the verbal root **vac*- (Pischel >> §337), despite the vowel change a > u before a labial (§104). >> >> >> And anyway, Buddhaghosa here is offering multiple exegetical >> “etymologies” (an old technique beginning already in the Vedic >> *brāhmaṇa-*prose), which are alternative or mutually complementary. The >> last of the six offered here relies on the “thread” meaning, explained >> using *two* distinct analogies which, if anything about the author’s >> sense of the basic literal meaning of the term is to be inferred from that >> fact, would point rather to a stronger awareness of *sutta* as connected >> with threads: >> >> >> >> *… suttasabhāgañ c’etaṃ yathā hi tacchakānaṃ suttaṃ pamāṇaṃ hoti evaṃ >> etam pi viññūnaṃ, yathā ca suttena saṅgahītāni pupphāni na vikirīyanti na >> viddhaṃsiyanti evam etena saṅgahītā atthā.* >> >> >> >> The trans. of the whole passage: >> >> >> >> This Scripture shows, expresses, fructifies, >> >> Yields, guards the Good, and is unto the wise >> >> A plumb-line; therefore *Sutta* is its name. >> >> >> >> For it shows what is good for the good of self and others. >> >> It is well expressed to suit the wishes of the audience. It has >> >> been said that it fructifies the Good, as crops fructify their >> >> fruit; that it yields the Good as a cow yields milk; and that >> >> it well protects and guards the Good. *It is a measure to the* >> >> *wise as the plumb-line is to carpenters*. And *just as flowers* >> >> *strung together are not scattered nor destroyed, so the Good* >> >> *strung together by it does not peris*h. Hence it has been said, >> >> to facilitate the study of the word-definition: >> >> >> >> This Scripture shows, expresses, fructifies, >> >> Yields, guards the Good, and is unto the wise >> >> A plumb-line; therefore *Sutta* is its name. >> >> (tr. Maung Tin, *The Expositor*, v. 1, PTE (1920), p. 24 >> >> >> >> Best, >> Tim >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> Timothy Lubin >> Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law >> 204 Tucker Hall >> Washington and Lee University >> Lexington, Virginia 24450 >> >> American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020–21 >> National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020–21 >> >> https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ >> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flubin.academic.wlu.edu%2F&data=04%7C01%7Caleksandar.uskokov%40yale.edu%7C988aad0e5b1b4a42373e08d9147ff166%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637563362017277270%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=epOZWooWF7S8qlHvp4MIPA2aZBN4W2hg64BDpQh1d7g%3D&reserved=0> >> >> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin >> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwlu.academia.edu%2FTimothyLubin&data=04%7C01%7Caleksandar.uskokov%40yale.edu%7C988aad0e5b1b4a42373e08d9147ff166%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637563362017277270%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=djXbkHjRm2d2H4BzMmUruIRYX8dOSf%2BIBVxdOmssg9w%3D&reserved=0> >> >> https://ssrn.com/author=930949 >> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fssrn.com%2Fauthor%3D930949&data=04%7C01%7Caleksandar.uskokov%40yale.edu%7C988aad0e5b1b4a42373e08d9147ff166%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637563362017287223%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ZPDGl9Hnui6wehukB%2F3R6TXjuNVJa2Nmwe6yKTPTISs%3D&reserved=0> >> https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy >> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdharma.hypotheses.org%2Fpeople%2Flubin-timothy&data=04%7C01%7Caleksandar.uskokov%40yale.edu%7C988aad0e5b1b4a42373e08d9147ff166%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637563362017297191%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=spmZDm6Y2DcvUQA7hGm%2Bbtycg13690bUiN1a%2FbUVyq8%3D&reserved=0> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From: *INDOLOGY <[email protected]> on behalf of >> INDOLOGY <[email protected]> >> *Reply-To: *Rupert Gethin <[email protected]> >> *Date: *Monday, May 10, 2021 at 7:29 PM >> *To: *INDOLOGY <[email protected]> >> *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] The Buddhist term sutta >> >> >> >> Oskar von Hinüber suggests here that the Theravāda tradition offers no >> support for a derivation of *sutta* from *sūkta*. (In >> der Theravāda-Überlieferung findet die Annahme, daß *sutta*- eigentlich >> *sūkta*- entspräche, nirgends eine Stütze, wie die >> lange Erörterung zu sutta-, As 19, 15–26 mit aller Deutlichkeit zeigt.) >> >> >> >> However, the Atthasālini passage cited here (= Sp I 19 = Sv I 17) quotes >> and explains a mnemonic verse that offers 6 ways of taking *sutta;* the >> second of these is precisely *sūkta* (Pali *suvutta*): >> >> >> >> "As revealing benefits, as well spoken (*suvutta*), as productive, >> as yielding, >> >> as sheltering well, as a universal measuring cord, it is called *sutta*.” >> >> >> "For a *sutta* reveals various benefits for ourselves and others. And in >> it these benefits are spoken well (*suvutta*) since they are spoken >> in accordance with the disposition of those who are to be trained …" >> >> >> >> atthānaṃ sūcanato suvuttato savanato ’tha sūdanato | >> suttāṇā suttasabhāgato ca suttan ti akkhātaṃ || >> >> >> >> taṃ hi attatthaparatthādibhede atthe sūceti. suvuttā c’ ettha >> atthā veneyyajjhāsayānulomena vuttattā ... >> >> >> >> Rupert Gethin >> >> -- >> >> *Rupert Gethin* >> >> Professor of Buddhist Studies >> University of Bristol >> >> Department of Religion and Theology >> >> 3 Woodland Road ● Bristol BS8 1TB ● UK >> >> >> >> Email: [email protected] <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> On 10 May 2021, at 21:13, Lubin, Tim <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Oskar von Hinüber (1994: “Die Neun Aṅgas,” p. 132) approvingly cites >> Mayrhofer’s judgment (EWA III/ 492) that the derivation from *sūkta* is >> “entbehrlich”; he cites a long discussion of the term in Buddhaghosa’s >> *Atthasālinī* 19.15–26 as evidence against it. >> >> >> >> Tim Lubin >> >> >> >> >> >> *From: *INDOLOGY <[email protected]> on behalf of >> INDOLOGY <[email protected]> >> *Reply-To: *Andrew Ollett <[email protected]> >> *Date: *Monday, May 10, 2021 at 3:28 PM >> *To: *Jim Ryan <[email protected]> >> *Cc: *INDOLOGY <[email protected]> >> *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] The Buddhist term sutta >> >> >> >> Dear Jim, >> >> >> >> See Max Walleser's 1914 book, footnote on p. 4: >> >> >> >> https://archive.org/details/dli.granth.87981/page/4/mode/2up >> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2Fdli.granth.87981%2Fpage%2F4%2Fmode%2F2up&data=04%7C01%7Caleksandar.uskokov%40yale.edu%7C988aad0e5b1b4a42373e08d9147ff166%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637563362017297191%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=A1pgPgLqB0ZEzM7W0xTHl2FiPSACu1hYQIAwDphCObg%3D&reserved=0> >> >> >> >> K. R. Norman and Gombrich accepted this suggestion. I suppose Pollock got >> it from Gombrich. >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 2:22 PM Jim Ryan via INDOLOGY < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> >> >> Sheldon Pollock in *The Language of the Gods in the World of Men *(p. >> 52) suggests that the Buddhist term “sutta” does not derive from the >> Sanskrit *sūtra,* but rather from *sūkta. *Sanskrit double consonant >> clusters do show regular assimilation, regressively and progressively, in >> Prakrit, where two different consonants become a double of one of them. I’m >> interested in hearing learned opinion on Pollock’s suggestion. I had not >> noticed this interesting detail, when I first read this book some years ago. >> >> >> >> James Ryan >> >> Asian Philosophies and Cultures (Emeritus) >> >> California Institute of Integral Studies >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=04%7C01%7Caleksandar.uskokov%40yale.edu%7C988aad0e5b1b4a42373e08d9147ff166%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637563362017307149%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=K9N0lD24TDWdroRrNcK2zOzRNtu1uyIV1njeW66q58c%3D&reserved=0> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=04%7C01%7Caleksandar.uskokov%40yale.edu%7C988aad0e5b1b4a42373e08d9147ff166%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637563362017307149%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=K9N0lD24TDWdroRrNcK2zOzRNtu1uyIV1njeW66q58c%3D&reserved=0> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > [email protected] > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >
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