Right on Target!!! I was going to say a few words about the direct equivalence between the Sanskrit “iti” and Tamil “eṉ”.
1. In Sangam Literature, the “eṉ” is very productive; manifests in all possible forms of a language. 2. In subsequent texts, such as the 'Twin Epics — cilappatikāram and maṇimēkalai’ as many have noted them, every chapter (long verse/canto) ends with the word “eṉ.” 3. In Classical Carnatic Music, there’s a beautiful composition by Thulasidaas (Gopala Gokula) in which we hear at the end of the verse, “iti vathathi …” . If you’re interested, please hear : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzyndQ91-Ho <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzyndQ91-Ho> ++++++++++ So, I take “iti” or “eṉ” as a 'wrapper morpheme’ or a ‘summarizer’ of what has been said thus far. Thanks and regards, —rajam > On Nov 13, 2022, at 12:41 PM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Friends, > > I have not read all the useful references you have mentioned, so forgive me > if I am bringing coals to Newcastle. But I recall that in Pāli and BHS texts > ´ti is ubiquitous at the end of verses. Might not the MIA angle be worth > exploring ? (And please forgive my ignorance if there is well-known work that > does this already. ) > > Matthew Kapstein > EPHE, Paris > > Sent from Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> > From: INDOLOGY <[email protected]> on behalf of George L. > HART via INDOLOGY <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2022 8:12:25 PM > To: Indology List <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit > > V.S. Rajam’s book is an essential one for students of classical Tamil, > covering syntax, meter, morphology, etc. What I meant is that to my knowledge > no one has made a substantial study of every use of eṉ in Sangam literature. > Such a study might include uses of iti in early Sanskrit. For example, in > modern Tamil we often find ēṉ eṉṟāl, “If you ask why,” which corresponds > exactly to Sanskrit "kuta iti cet.” One wonders how old this usage is in both > languages. George Hart > >> On Nov 12, 2022, at 6:07 PM, rajam <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Dear List Members, >> >> George Hart said: >> >> /// I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which has >> equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for example), is far >> more productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in various forms — adjective >> (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while >> in Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be interesting to analyze the >> uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure anyone has done this. /// >> >> Just to kindle your memory … >> >> Please look into my book “A Reference Grammar of Classical Tamil Poetry, >> V.S. Rajam, American Philosophical Society, 1992” >> >> Thanks and regards, >> V.S. Rajam >> >> >> >>> On Nov 12, 2022, at 12:54 PM, George L. HART via INDOLOGY >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which has equivalents >>> in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for example), is far more >>> productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in various forms — adjective >>> (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while >>> in Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be interesting to analyze the >>> uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure anyone has done this. Of >>> course, the use of this construction could be an areal phenomenon — it is >>> not necessarily true that its presence in early Sanskrit is due to >>> Dravidian, though I think it is highly likely, given its richness in >>> Dravidian languages. George Hart >>> >>>> On Nov 12, 2022, at 1:08 PM, Tieken, H.J.H. (Herman) via INDOLOGY >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I do not know if the question was about iti as an areal phenomenon. If so, >>>> see F.B.J. Kuiper, "The Genesis of a Linguistic Area", IIJ 1968, where, if >>>> I remember well, he compares Skt iti with Tamil eṉṟu. >>>> Herman >>>> >>>> Herman Tieken >>>> Stationsweg 58 >>>> 2515 BP Den Haag >>>> The Netherlands >>>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 >>>> website: hermantieken.com <http://hermantieken.com/> >>>> Van: INDOLOGY <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> namens Madhav Deshpande via >>>> INDOLOGY <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> Verzonden: zaterdag 12 november 2022 17:34 >>>> Aan: Olivelle, Joseph P <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> CC: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit >>>> >>>> If I remember correctly, the possibility of the "iti" constructions being >>>> an areal phenomena have been discussed for many decades. The best person >>>> to provide information regarding this topic may be Hans Hock. I will see >>>> if I can locate any of these older publications. >>>> >>>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics >>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA >>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies >>>> Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India >>>> >>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 6:28 AM Olivelle, Joseph P via INDOLOGY >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> See the many explanations of ‘iti’ in Gary Tubb and Emery Boose’s book >>>> “Scholastic Sanskrit”. >>>> >>>> Patrick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:10 AM, Brendan S. Gillon, Prof. via INDOLOGY >>>> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Dear colleagues, >>>> > >>>> > I am wondering if any of you know of articles on the use of `iti' in >>>> > Sanskrit. >>>> > >>>> > Best wishes, >>>> > >>>> > Brendan >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > >>>> > Brendan S. Gillon email: [email protected] >>>> > <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > Department of Linguistics >>>> > McGill University tel.: 001 514 398 4868 >>>> > 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield >>>> > Montreal, Quebec fax.: 001 514 398 7088 >>>> > H3A 1A7 CANADA >>>> > >>>> > webpage: >>>> > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.mcgill.ca%2Fstaff%2Fgroup3%2Fbgillo%2Fweb%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C40005a48e3d64c7af97308dac4b84054%7C31d7e2a5bdd8414e9e97bea998ebdfe1%7C0%7C0%7C638038592882519039%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHfWYYtZKaf%2FjbNNUQwJhnoaLp8V7WAqPSZGcXaH2xU%3D&reserved=0 >>>> > >>>> > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.mcgill.ca%2Fstaff%2Fgroup3%2Fbgillo%2Fweb%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ch.j.h.tieken%40hum.leidenuniv.nl%7C295db7e7b8714862742908dac4cbed9c%7Cca2a7f76dbd74ec091086b3d524fb7c8%7C0%7C0%7C638038677398630127%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yyUoPrr6Ns2Gi1p2wTJO5kICrdegnoY5Ox6uJigVykk%3D&reserved=0> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=05%7C01%7C%7C40005a48e3d64c7af97308dac4b84054%7C31d7e2a5bdd8414e9e97bea998ebdfe1%7C0%7C0%7C638038592882519039%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GhfFm1DiIXicrk1S%2Fzv%2F6so6YoU5TCCdm0kHp6esElI%3D&reserved=0 >>>> > >>>> > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=05%7C01%7Ch.j.h.tieken%40hum.leidenuniv.nl%7C295db7e7b8714862742908dac4cbed9c%7Cca2a7f76dbd74ec091086b3d524fb7c8%7C0%7C0%7C638038677398630127%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wsgOjkowtEL%2FaruE2IcKVJP181LGzqIrImXVewIbXaM%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >>>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=05%7C01%7Ch.j.h.tieken%40hum.leidenuniv.nl%7C295db7e7b8714862742908dac4cbed9c%7Cca2a7f76dbd74ec091086b3d524fb7c8%7C0%7C0%7C638038677398630127%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wsgOjkowtEL%2FaruE2IcKVJP181LGzqIrImXVewIbXaM%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >>>> <https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > [email protected] > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
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