| Yeah.....which does not stop AFS from choking when quorum goes away.

Oh yeah? Find me another system where you can crash even more than one
server and still keep the system functioning decently... ;-)


 | I hope that the pts changes will make it do what I need it to; We've
 | been waiting for R/O access out of quorum since 1993. Without R/O
 | access out of quorum, AFS is really unsuitable for widely distributed
 | production environments.

I dont think that quorum is the main issue about wide-area access, but
that is neither here nor there.  The point is anything weaker than
transactional semantics when using replication for such metadata is
known to be a root cause of `bad' behaviour in almost all distributed
systems.  If you weaken it (for example, by giving out info outside of
quorum), you will have much more hairy problems that just WAN access. 


 | Your statement that the vlserver will not work the same way worries me;
 | what does that mean for clients of a machine (assume it's running all
 | services) that's out of quorum? Will they be able to  reboot and still
 | get r/o AFS space?

I am not certain what you mean by "clients of a machine that is out of
quorum".  By definition, a machine outside quorum has no clients.

I suppose what you meant was "what if a client has no access to
vlservers that _are_ in quorum?" Well, given that and your reboot in
between, such a client is out of luck.  Normally, a client caches
everything, so if it has been up for a while, the (temporary) lack of
access to a quorum of the vlservers is rarely noticed.  On reboot
however, the meta-data cache is purged. 


 | 
 | The manpages say:
 | 
 |    when   the   information   in   the   VLDB  is
 |    inaccessible, the Cache Manager cannot retrieve files,  even
 |    if the File Server processes are working properly.
 | 
 | Does this mean that AFS will NOT work out of quorum for read/only
 | files at 3.4??

I think there is some confusion here about what read-only data we are
talking about.  There is the data in the fileservers (user-data) and
data in the database servers (meta-data).  User-data is either r/w or
r/o.  Meta-data is always r/w. 

Fileservers will always give out user-data (r/w or r/o), whether or not
the database servers are in quorum.  It is a function of the client
whether it has access to a vlserver that is in quorum to be able to find
a suitable fileserver.

What I was talking about was the conditions under which database-servers
allow read-only transactions on the r/w metadata to complete.  To read
meta-data, in the case of the pt and ka servers, one need not contact a
member of the quorum subset.  (to modify meta-data, one has to be able
to contact a database server that is in quorum, kadb, budb, ptdb and
vldb alike). 

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