Thanks to Byung-Hee HWANG's suggestion, I have it working

this works
A)

(setq message-send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it      
      smtpmail-starttls-credentials '(("mail.hillenius.net" 587 nil nil))
      starttls-extra-arguments '("--insecure")
      smtpmail-auth-credentials  "~/.smtp-authinfo"
      smtpmail-default-smtp-server "mail.hillenius.net"
      smtpmail-smtp-server "mail.hillenius.net"
      smtpmail-smtp-service 587
      smtpmail-local-domain "hillenius.net")

this also works

B)

(setq send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it
      message-send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)

(setq smtpmail-starttls-credentials '(("mail.hillenius.net" 587 nil nil))
      starttls-extra-arguments '("--insecure")
      smtpmail-auth-credentials  "~/.smtp-authinfo"
      smtpmail-default-smtp-server "mail.hillenius.net"
      smtpmail-smtp-server "mail.hillenius.net"
      smtpmail-smtp-service 587
      smtpmail-local-domain "hillenius.net")

and C) this line in my previous .gnus seems to be the culprit

;; starttls-extra-arguments '("--insecure" "--verbose")



-- 
I develop for Linux for a living, I used to develop for DOS.
Going from DOS to Linux is like trading a glider for an F117.
(By [email protected], Lawrence Foard)
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