Am 02.05.2017 um 09:13 schrieb brynn: ... > If it needs screenshots that are close up, showing a drawing, I could do > that. But anything showing dialogs, it would not be a good idea, imo. > > But I'll have a go at using a translator. And if I see any places where > I can make a screenshot ready, I'll do that too. >
- Sounds great :) Thank you, Brynn! Maren > Sorry about getting the page wrong. Not 2 minutes after I sent the > message, I realized it was not the first page. Oh well. > > All best, > brynn > > -----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 5:06 AM > To: brynn ; C R > Cc: Inkscape-Devel ; Inkscape-Docs ; Victor Westmann > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? > (targeting the moon) > > Am 01.05.2017 um 07:19 schrieb brynn: >>> @Brynn: if you want to help with the translation of that 'intro' book, >> you could, for example, make corresponding screenshots for it, of the >> English version. You could also get an account on that site, and explain >> to others who speak both French and English how it works, and what they >> would need to do to join. Or write a news article asking for translators >> who would like to help. >> Also, you could add a 'Credits' page at the end, which seems to be >> missing still. >> And, of course, you can proofread and edit. Sylvain has already >> translated quite a bit. >> >> Thanks Maren. I'll jump right in, as much as possible. But I don't >> understand this part: >> >> "....make corresponding screenshots for it...." >> >> Screenshots for what purpose? > > - The English screenshots need to be made. The original book is in > French and has French screenshots, with French menus and maybe example > texts in French (don't know for sure), as far as I know. Some may not > need any translation, because there may not be any words in them, but > others will. > > They could be inserted into the corresponding chapters, even if there is > no text yet. > >> Getting an account on FLOSS Manuals goes without saying, once the >> translation is finished and we can go ahead updating and expanding. But >> I'll be in the same boat as potential new translators, for learning how >> it works. I won't be in a position to help newcomers, until I've had a >> little experience myself. >> >> Credits page -- the first page gives all the credits. Is something more >> needed? > > - Ah, yes, I've found it now, thanks. It's here: > https://fr.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/about-this-book/ (not > first page, though) > > Maren > >> Proofreading -- I've read several pages already, and the English is >> flawless so far! But before I go on, I'd like to hear if anyone else is >> proofreading, so we don't waste our collective time. >> >> Actually, because of our previous discussions, I've been waiting for >> Sylvain to let me know when something is ready for proofing. I could >> still do it anyway. But maybe I'll message him and ask. >> >> All best, >> brynn >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Maren Hachmann >> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2017 4:29 PM >> To: C R ; brynn >> Cc: Inkscape-Devel ; Inkscape-Docs ; Victor Westmann >> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? >> (targeting the moon) >> >> Hi all, >> >> oh, wow, I've just been offline for a couple of hours - wouldn't have >> expected that, if finally someone gives the 'go' for a manual, there >> would be such a huge echo (we've been discussing this on and off for a >> /very/ long time already). That's just cool :D >> >> Just some comments to various things that were mentioned: >> >> @CR: I think Scribus is a great tool for making the kind of graphical, >> polished, sellable, printable, book-with-columns-like structure which >> was linked in that very first link. For something that is really nice to >> look at, and is fun to read and touch. >> >> I also think this is not the same as a manual, which should be quick to >> browse, quick to grasp, with lots of interlinks, with a file format >> suitable for version control (well, yes, Scribus is xml, I've been told, >> so it would be /readable/ - but those diffs are really ugly), with >> out-of-the-box automated generation of online versions of a manual - as >> can be done with tools like sphinx/readthedocs, doctype, and other tools >> specifically tailored for open source documentation + gitlab CI. >> You can take a look at the link from Victor's message to the mailing >> list, if you would like to know more: >> https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/35773618/ >> >> Even the booktype server of flossmanuals works with automation. >> Using one of those would also have the advantage that, once set up, this >> system could be used for both developer as well as user documentation >> (as Victor wrote in his post - and I agree with him). >> >> As for the attribution, I think especially the book-like structure would >> profit from it, as I believe that artists may be more likely to >> contribute their drawings if those are - at least - credited to them. >> >> Also, it would be good if things like the keyboard+mouse reference and >> other stuff we already have could be included. It's faster that way. >> Faster also means: quicker rewards. This is good if you want to have >> many contributors. Also, crediting people for their work is just >> something that makes them more willing to contribute (as stated above). >> CC-By would lose that, after the first iteration, as far as my >> understanding of the licence goes. >> >> Some of the people involved in flossmanualsfr are also long-time >> contributors to and developers of Inkscape, so that's the relation. >> >> The other, English, outdated, manual that you linked to, has been >> written by many of the 'old hands' in the Inkscape community - some of >> whom have moved on, and some of whom are still involved. >> >> @doctormo: "FLOSS Manuals utilise la licence libre GPL pour l'ensemble >> de ses travaux." - translates to: all manuals on flossmanuals are under >> the GPL (don't ask which version, doesn't say there on that page. >> (https://www.flossmanualsfr.net/faq-floss-manuals-francophone/ch011_quest-ce-que-lopen-source-et-quelle-est-la-difference-entre-free-libre-et-open). >> >> >> >> @Brynn: if you want to help with the translation of that 'intro' book, >> you could, for example, make corresponding screenshots for it, of the >> English version. You could also get an account on that site, and explain >> to others who speak both French and English how it works, and what they >> would need to do to join. Or write a news article asking for translators >> who would like to help. >> Also, you could add a 'Credits' page at the end, which seems to be >> missing still. >> And, of course, you can proofread and edit. Sylvain has already >> translated quite a bit. >> >> The NC licence is maybe a bit overprotective, but I'm all for crediting >> and having a manual be available for anyone who needs it. I personally >> wouldn't mind if someone prints and sells it and makes money with that. >> As long as that is not the only source of the book/manual, this doesn't >> cause me any worries. >> >> I think google translate might cause more issues than solve them - but >> it has been getting better... I personally find that correcting a badly >> messed-up text which already gives me some 'scheme' tends to give worse >> translations, than when there is no scaffolding. It's because the >> machine translation is kind of giving the direction. It may be faster, >> but the translation sounds less natural. >> >> @jazzynico or Elisa: Can you tell us the specific flossmanuals licence? >> GPLv2 or 3? Or, if not specified, do you know which version it would use >> then, legally? Does Booktype use any kind of version control that is >> compatible with git? What is the source file format? >> >> @Miguel: yes, we're discussing those workarounds (and many others) on >> the forums on a regular basis. It would certainly be cool if someone >> could compile the 'Tips + Tricks' (sounds better than workarounds?) to >> make up a separate section in the manual, or even a separate manual by >> its own. >> >> (sorry for the long post, there was a lot to reply to :D) >> >> Maren >> >> >> Am 29.04.2017 um 21:22 schrieb C R: >>> Also this: http://write.flossmanuals.net/inkscape/ >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 8:04 PM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> Books done in Scribus can be "published" in a variety of ways,.... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes, I understand that. But I thought Victor was talking about a >>>>> hardback >>>>> book, like at the link he provided. That kind of book is hard to get >>>>> published, unless you have some prior agreement with a publisher. >>>>> At least >>>>> that's my understanding. >>>> >>>> We can self-publish, but we'd have to order a thousand copies, which >>>> would take some startup funds. I don't think hardback would be >>>> necessary. >>>> In fact, I don't imagine printing is necessary. We could render out a >>>> nice illustration of the book, with "ebook" under it, and people can >>>> enjoy the aesthetic without downing a bunch of trees to make physical >>>> copies of the manual. Virtual copies have great things like >>>> hyperlinks, and text search capabilities. So there are more benefits >>>> to having a digital copy anyway. >>>> >>>>> Somewhere in this thread was some discussion about licensing. If >>>>> this is to >>>>> be a hardback book (old fashioned way of publishing) *to me* it >>>>> makes more >>>>> sense to carry a copyright. >>>> >>>> The only requirement for a published physical book is an isbn number >>>> (for product catalog, and inventory purposes). The license of the >>>> book, as I understand it, is left completely open to the authors. We >>>> would not have this published by a company interested in owning the >>>> copyright, of course. >>>> >>>>> As far as I understand, publishers take a cut >>>>> of sales. And if it's a public domain content, there wouldn't be many >>>>> sales. It seems like it would make it even harder to find a >>>>> publisher. >>>> >>>> A publisher isn't necessary for this project, assuming the content is >>>> what's important. If we want book sales out of this, that's the point >>>> where it will become an issue. >>>> >>>>> I don't know, maybe I'm old and old fashioned. But the FLOSS >>>>> manual, on the >>>>> other hand, certainly should be either public domain, or CC-BY-NC-SA >>>>> might >>>>> be better. Whatever it needs to have, to allow the community to edit. >>>> >>>> All I can guarantee is that my contributions will be public domain. :) >>>> >>>>> This is probably a bad idea. But I'm trying to think outside the >>>>> box. What >>>>> if I (or other non-French-speaker) took one of the French pages, and >>>>> sent it >>>>> through the public google and/or bing translators. I know those are >>>>> far >>>>> from perfect. (Sooooo far!) But since I know Inkscape, it seems >>>>> like it >>>>> would give me enough of a clue what it's about, to be able to write it >>>>> properly in English. >>>> >>>> Well, translation plus proof-reading is fine I'd think. It's not like >>>> the subject matter would be alien to you. :) Fact is, you could easily >>>> re-write from scratch the missing sections in English, then we would >>>> be able to use it in our own "official" Inkscape manual too. >>>> >>>>> Then maybe the translators can proof read it, to make sure something >>>>> important wasn't missed? Proof reading would seem to be much less >>>>> time-consuming for them. >>>>> >>>>> Would that work?? >>>>> >>>>> All best, >>>>> brynn >>>> >>>> >>>> As I understand it, the Inkscape Project has nothing to do with >>>> flossmanuals, so perhaps it's beyond the scope of this project. >>>> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
