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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Facilitating installation and update of anti-spam filter
(Grant Taylor)
2. Re: Facilitating installation and update of anti-spam filter
(Julien ?LIE)
3. Re: Facilitating installation and update of anti-spam filter
(Richard Kettlewell)
4. Re: Facilitating installation and update of anti-spam filter
(Jesse Rehmer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 11:46:53 -0600
From: Grant Taylor <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Facilitating installation and update of anti-spam filter
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
On 7/10/22 4:20 AM, Julien ?LIE wrote:
> Hi all,
Hi,
> What would you think of having an "updatenewsfilter" program (or any
> better name) that would permit installing Cleanfeed and/or PyClean (to
> the choice of the news admin) and updating an existing installation?
I guess that I'm okay with a utility to install / activate a filter.
> It would compare installed files with files from their upstream Github
> repository, show the differences to the news admin, and update them if
> asked to.
I don't know about the updating aspect. I know that I've made changes
to my local cleanfeed so I would want something to deal with those changes.
I guess my changes could be created as a patch against a given version,
and then see if the same patch could be applied against the next version.
> This program could be run out of cron, and send a mail if a new version
> should be deployed.
I can see some value in checking to see if there is a new version.
But I think similar could be done with push notifications from a mailing
list on the source end vs a constant pull / poll from each and every
installed instance.
> ... and this program could also do the same for control.ctl and maybe
> other configuration files.
This gives me indigestion.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 20:34:02 +0200
From: Julien ?LIE <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Facilitating installation and update of anti-spam filter
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Hi Grant,
>> It would compare installed files with files from their upstream Github
>> repository, show the differences to the news admin, and update them if
>> asked to.
>
> I don't know about the updating aspect.? I know that I've made changes
> to my local cleanfeed so I would want something to deal with those changes.
>
> I guess my changes could be created as a patch against a given version,
> and then see if the same patch could be applied against the next version.
Local patches should indeed be retained, I agree.
Note that you would have the same problem if distributions provided
inn2-cleanfeed packages... Any update would erase local changes (unless
done in cleanfeed.local).
>> This program could be run out of cron, and send a mail if a new
>> version should be deployed.
>
> I can see some value in checking to see if there is a new version.
>
> But I think similar could be done with push notifications from a mailing
> list on the source end vs a constant pull / poll from each and every
> installed instance.
Unfortunately I am not aware of such a mailing-list...
I agree that "constant" polling from installed instances should be
avoided (I had in mind once a week or even a month). They do not change
often.
>> ... and this program could also do the same for control.ctl and maybe
>> other configuration files.
>
> This gives me indigestion.
Nonetheless, we have configuration files for which news admins should
give better care. How could they notably know there are moderating
rules to change? (the fido7.* line in moderators should for instance
point to @fido7.org and no longer @fido7.ru - I bet most news admins did
not do the change)
Same thing for control.ctl when a rule (and sometimes its associated
key) change...
Which in fact raises the question of how to ease the administration of a
news server and inform admins of changes they should have a look at?
--
Julien ?LIE
??Ce vieux forban d'Asthmatix, il ne manquait pas d'air?!?? (Ast?rix)
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 21:35:45 +0100
From: Richard Kettlewell <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Facilitating installation and update of anti-spam filter
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 10/07/2022 11:20, Julien ?LIE wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Removing from TODO (which should one day be moved to the Github issue
> system) what has been done since the last 2.6.0 major release, I see:
>
> * Add a generic, modular anti-spam and anti-abuse filter, off by default,
> ? but coming with INN and prominently mentioned in the INSTALL
> ? documentation.? [Andrew Gierth has work in progress that may be usable
> ? for this.]
>
> I do not know where I can find his work.? Nevertheless, it may not
> easily integrate into our current releases.
>
> What would you think of having an "updatenewsfilter" program (or any
> better name) that would permit installing Cleanfeed and/or PyClean (to
> the choice of the news admin) and updating an existing installation?
>
> It would compare installed files with files from their upstream Github
> repository, show the differences to the news admin, and update them if
> asked to.
> If the news server does not have Internet access, then installation
> could be done from a local directory.
>
> This program could be run out of cron, and send a mail if a new version
> should be deployed.
>
>
> ... and this program could also do the same for control.ctl and maybe
> other configuration files.
Some kind of strategy for keeping control.ctl up to date would be nice.
I don't see INN as particularly unique here. There are other kinds of
configuration that may need to be updated independently from the code
that uses them, e.g. root CAs, DNS root hints, timezone policies, etc.
In some cases ordinary software package management ecosystems already do
the job adequately, it would be nice if that could be the case here
rather than inventing someting new for INN?
ttfn/rjk
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 15:37:46 -0500
From: Jesse Rehmer <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Facilitating installation and update of anti-spam filter
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> On Jul 10, 2022, at 1:34 PM, Julien ?LIE <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Local patches should indeed be retained, I agree.
>
> Note that you would have the same problem if distributions provided
> inn2-cleanfeed packages... Any update would erase local changes (unless done
> in cleanfeed.local).
Until an integrated filter that is regularly maintained and battle-tested is
introduced with INN, I?d rather not have anything mess with pyClean. I?ve
found some of its filters too aggressive and have disabled several, which it
doesn?t provide an easy way to do via config files. Cleanfeed has config
options for disabling each of its checks, if I recall correctly. In my case
filter_innd.py is heavily modified. Overall pyClean does it?s job, but I find
the PHN/FSL filters reject a fair amount of ?valid? articles. I put quotes
around valid because admittedly the articles I?m referring to are often part of
flame wars and such, but they are not what I consider spam.
I can?t get pyClean to work with Python 3.8/3.9 and had to revert to using
Python 2.7. It loads and reports it is hooked into INN but never does any
filtering or logging. Looking at the Github repo it has had a few updates in
the last couple years, but the majority of the code is 7 years old. Another
hurdle for me was Steve?s repo has zero installation instructions. When I
first came across it I had no idea how to properly install and configure. It
wasn?t until I stumbled upon a fork whose maintainer took the time to provide a
basic install guide that it was clear what to do.
If such filtering packages are going to be distributed with INN hopefully they
get more love and maintenance. I don?t know if this would improve performance,
but I?d like the filter to run as an external process. During busy times innd
with pyClean is using ~40-60% more CPU than another innd process handing the
same feed with no filtering. I lack the skills to dive into whether this is due
to pyClean code, the Python hook, or a combination but it uses quite a bit more
CPU than Cleanfeed. My server isn?t that busy compared to others, but I could
see it being unusable for those handling just a small fraction of binary
groups. I only carry a few that are sporadic, but I can tell when binary
articles are coming in by how much one of my spool machine?s CPU usage spikes.
Having the filter run as a separate process would at least give me a better
idea where to place blame and investigate for improvement.
Whatever is decided, let?s please not introduce another ?Cleanfeed? into the
world, where multiple iterations by various maintainers are strewn amongst the
Internet, and for a beginner is confusing to understand what is the newest
version, where to get it, who maintains it, etc.
> Nonetheless, we have configuration files for which news admins should give
> better care. How could they notably know there are moderating rules to
> change? (the fido7.* line in moderators should for instance point to
> @fido7.org and no longer @fido7.ru - I bet most news admins did not do the
> change)
> Same thing for control.ctl when a rule (and sometimes its associated key)
> change...
>
> Which in fact raises the question of how to ease the administration of a news
> server and inform admins of changes they should have a look at?
Good question, this has been a point of struggle for me after putting down
INN/Diablo/NNTP for some years and picking things up again. This area of
administration is a mess across the entirety of Usenet. INN?s maintainers have
seemingly been the only entity attempting to keep the usefulness of control
messages alive. A common method to update, or notify of updates, to the
control.ctl or filters would be a good start. I try to keep this stuff
up-to-date, but it can be confusing what is ?up-to-date? and where is the
proper place to look for changes.
Regards,
Jesse Rehmer
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