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Today's Topics:
1. Re: add "Auto-Submitted: auto-generated" to generated EMails?
(Grant Taylor)
2. Re: add "Auto-Submitted: auto-generated" to generated EMails?
(Grant Taylor)
3. Re: add "Auto-Submitted: auto-generated" to generated EMails?
(Grant Taylor)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2023 12:14:04 -0600
From: Grant Taylor <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: add "Auto-Submitted: auto-generated" to generated EMails?
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
On 3/12/23 7:48 AM, Thomas Hochstein wrote:
> Current moderator tools mostly just reformat a mail message to a
> news article.
ACK
> AFAIS the discussion is about implementing the
> application/news-transmission Content-Type from RFC 5537. Moderator
> tools would have to change form reformatting a mail message to
> extracting an article that is submittend with a Content-Type of
> application/news-transmission from a mail.
Thank you for explaining and citing additional things that I should read.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2023 12:24:31 -0600
From: Grant Taylor <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: add "Auto-Submitted: auto-generated" to generated EMails?
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
On 3/12/23 9:45 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> It's not that it's not technically fine -- it certainly is -- but the
> main problem with moderation right now is that the email sent to the
> moderator gets rejected or discarded along the way by spam filters.
The days of sending an email that appears to be from someone not
associated with the source server & sending domain are quickly coming to
a close. I'd argue that we are well past a point where we could rely on
that working. I'd further argue that we are probably past a point where
we can count on it failing for some domains.
> If we used encapsulation, this would have the advantage of no longer
> sending email apparently from an address that has no relation to the
> transmission path (probably good for not triggering spam filters)
Agreed.
> but the disadvantage of looking very weird and having nested
> encapsulation structure ...
I question how weird the arriving moderated message looks. Maybe there
is some nuance to application/news-transmission has compared to
message/rfc822 (from memory). But I feel like message/rfc822 is quite
well supported in fat MUAs and some thin web based MUAs are learning how
to use it too. I strongly suspect that application/news-transmission
can ride message/rfc822's coat tails.
> (very bad for spam filtering because spam filters usually treat all
> unusual messages as a sign of phishing).
Please elaborate on what spam filtering you're talking about? Are you
referring to the spam filtering in the email path? Or are you referring
to spam filtering in the moderation stack?
If you're referring to the spam filtering in the email path, then I
think that message/rfc822 attachments are, and have long been, standard
enough to not be treated as unknown and therefore blocked.
> And if I were to pick one thing that threatens the moderation system
> the most, it would be messages going silently missing because the
> email server of the moderator decides that a lot of the moderation
> messages are spam and therefore all of them are spam and starts
> silently throwing them all away.
This makes me think that you're talking about the spam filtering in the
email path.
Any email server worth it's bits should not be silently throwing away
messages.
I feel like there is another option that I've not yet seen discussion
about. What if moderated messages are sent through email as
message/rfc822 or application/news-transmission and then on the
receiving end, a shim of sorts is put in place between the receiving
email server and the existing moderation stack that detaches the
attached / moderated message and feeds just the moderated message into
the moderation software? Wouldn't that both avoid the now 10+ year old
email hygiene and conform to the old method that the existing moderation
stacks are expecting? I think that this shim would be relatively small
and easy to use. I also think that it would quite likely allow the
existing moderation software stacks to work mostly as they are today.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2023 12:26:47 -0600
From: Grant Taylor <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: add "Auto-Submitted: auto-generated" to generated EMails?
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
On 3/12/23 10:05 AM, Jason Evans wrote:
> I think this is more of an education issue than a technical one. I think
> the best thing to do if someone is interested in moderating is to
> suggest that they proactively account for their mail services's spam
> filter even if that means white-listing all mail coming to the
> moderation account. Though this may not be possible when using services
> like gmail.
Is it not possible to ask moderators to add an additional email account
that is specifically used for moderation and for that account to be
hosted on a mail server that is specifically configured ~> tuned to deal
with such messages? Perhaps on the news server or a closely related
mail server.
> Speaking from experience, I'm a moderator on 3 different newsgroups and
> we really don't see that much spam coming through (not that much traffic
> either). If someone emailed us directly or posted on a non-moderated
> group like news.groups asking why their posts are not getting though, I
> would consider altering or removing our spam filter.
What email address would they email directly? Is there any chance that
said email address will also suffer from similar forwarding problems too?
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
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