Andrew said Hmmm... without wanting to put words into your mouth, you seem to be saying here that a strong Australian military is something we should oppose as a threat to peace.
[Bev Fabb] No I was not saying that. I believe we need to have a defence force- not the word defence!!!. I can support the use of armed forces to protect us from invasion and aggression.
And I
am quite happy for, indeed supportive of the involvement of Australian
miliatary staff in peace keeping efforts in East Timor, Bouganville,
Solomon Islands etc.
I am
not happy about Aus troops being used for agression against other nations, such
as I believe happened in the recent Iraq war. In that instance, Iraq posed
no threat to Australia, were not threatening us in any way, yet we engaged in
act of naked aggression against them without the support of hte
international community.
I do
not support the Hussein regime- I have known too many Iraqis who were victims of
his rule to do that. But just because there is an unjust and cruel
government that is no reason for another nation to invade and take control of a
nation. If we did that we would be invading many other nations in the world
also- what about Zimbabwe, North Korea, even dare I say USA. If the
argument that he possessed weapons of mass destruction, (which no one can find)
then perhaps we should invade all other countries with weapons of mass
destruction which threaten world peace- USA would be top of the
list.
[Bev Fabb] What I would like to see is a national public debate about the purposes of hte Australian armed forces. That is a debate we have never had.
The
only point I was making previously was that it is unfortunate that Aus
young people were being forced into the military for economic reasons as the
only way they could get an education. This seems to be severaly limiting thier
freedom of choice.
Interestingly, when Neville Watson, the UC minister, was in
Iraq during the war, he tried to talk to as many US troops as
possible. he asked all of them why they joined the military. The most
common answer was- to get an education! Australia seems to be going
down the same path.
Bev
Perhaps you should discuss this with Ramon Horta or any other East Timorese.
Certainly there are strong and reasonable views against our involvement in particular wars, notably Vietnam (which I opposed) and Iraq (which I supported). But that's not the same thing as opposing the very existence of the Australian military, or thinking it "unfortunate" that good people join. Some do think exactly that of course. Part of my problem at the time of the Vietnam conflict was that unlike these extreme pacifists I could not claim conscientious objection to warfare in general. That is, I certainly object to warfare, but I also think there is a time to shoot back. Neville Chamberlain tried it the other way. Disaster.
So far as our involvement in East Timor or the Solomon Islands goes, my only criticism is that we waited too long in both cases, and that needless suffering was the result. As I understand it that is also the position of the federal opposition. In a way, that is Chamberlain's mistake all over again, isn't it? He waited, when he could have saved many lives by being a bit more ready to shoot, especially bearing in mind that the other side was shooting already.
I doubt there is any chance of Australia embracing extreme pacifism, or even unarmed neutrality. In which case, we need armed forces. I say, the better the armed forces are at what they do, the less collateral damage there will be. I want them to be clever enough to hit what they shoot at, and nothing else, so far as is humanly possible. Actually I think they do very well at this already. Perhaps the scholarships they offer are one reason for this. If so that is a good thing.
Our military have a very nasty job. I think most Australians want to support them with the best training and equipment we can possibly give them, and in other ways too. I'm pleased that the UCA supplies chaplains as part of this. Perhaps you should talk to these chaplains too.
Or perhaps I have misunderstood you. What exactly is this issue to be taken up nationally?
Yours in Christ
andrew a
Perhaps you should discuss this with Ramon Horta or any other East Timorese.
Certainly there are strong and reasonable views against our involvement in particular wars, notably Vietnam (which I opposed) and Iraq (which I supported). But that's not the same thing as opposing the very existence of the Australian military, or thinking it "unfortunate" that good people join. Some do think exactly that of course. Part of my problem at the time of the Vietnam conflict was that unlike these extreme pacifists I could not claim conscientious objection to warfare in general. That is, I certainly object to warfare, but I also think there is a time to shoot back. Neville Chamberlain tried it the other way. Disaster.
So far as our involvement in East Timor or the Solomon Islands goes, my only criticism is that we waited too long in both cases, and that needless suffering was the result. As I understand it that is also the position of the federal opposition. In a way, that is Chamberlain's mistake all over again, isn't it? He waited, when he could have saved many lives by being a bit more ready to shoot, especially bearing in mind that the other side was shooting already.
I doubt there is any chance of Australia embracing extreme pacifism, or even unarmed neutrality. In which case, we need armed forces. I say, the better the armed forces are at what they do, the less collateral damage there will be. I want them to be clever enough to hit what they shoot at, and nothing else, so far as is humanly possible. Actually I think they do very well at this already. Perhaps the scholarships they offer are one reason for this. If so that is a good thing.
Our military have a very nasty job. I think most Australians want to support them with the best training and equipment we can possibly give them, and in other ways too. I'm pleased that the UCA supplies chaplains as part of this. Perhaps you should talk to these chaplains too.
Or perhaps I have misunderstood you. What exactly is this issue to be taken up nationally?
Yours in Christ
andrew a
email: andrewa @ alder . ws
http://www.zeta.org.au/~andrewa
Phone 9441 4476
Mobile 04 2525 4476
****
---------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER: The information in this message and any attachments is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this message in error.. To the extent that this email contains information provided to Synod of WA/Wesley Mission Perth by other sources, Synod of WA/Wesley Mission Perth does not warrant that it is accurate or complete. Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of Synod of WA/Wesley Mission Perth.
