RE: Leadership - democracy - homosexuality

[Bev Fabb]

In regard to theocracy- our understandings of this are related to our image of God. If we have an image of God as the all powerful ruler, then we tend to think of theocracy as rule coming down from above. We then can tend to put the clergy in a powerful and privaleged position as the ones who know what God wants. I wonder if this is something of what you are hinting at in this message.   However if your image of God is one of a God who exists in community- in the community of the Trinity, in the community of God's people, then you idea of theocracy changes. Deciding God's will and purpose for the church becomes the action of the community, as they gather together to listen to each other, reflect on Scripture and listen for the leading of the Spirit. IN this model of theocracy, all members in the church have a part in discerning God's will.   But this is not democracy- the difference is that democracy is individualistic- in a democratic society we all cast a secret ballot, we each decide individually what we want and vote for it. This is not our model of decision making in the UCA. Our model is of a community of people getting together to discern God's will as a community. So our model is more the second one here.   Bev -----Original Message----- From: Tom Stuart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 8:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Leadership - democracy - homosexuality I have heard some leaders of late draw on the term theocracy.  While I admit to not having all that clear an understanding of such terminology I get an uneasy feeling this days that it could be term used by leaders of the church as a cop out.   I wonder how accurate this generalisation of clergy this is:   I find there a 4 type of clergy.  There are those who did their training who had their horizons broadened (if they weren't already broad).  They discovered why lies behind the scriptures, and church history etc.  These people went into ministry with great fervour and tried to impart their understanding.  They got rejected and many ended up in bureaucratic roles in the church.   Then there is the minister who went through the same process.  Was wise enough to realise that they should be careful with their knowledge and hid it from their congregations.  This is the largest group.   There are those who went through the former and decided their ideas too radical for their congregations so they took back on board the dominant views of the lay people.   There are those who already knew the dangers of theological training and set as their goal to defend "the real truth" through the process.  They were the thorn in the educator's side and the delight of the congregation.   So minister's in the main unwilling to be honest with their congregations gather together with the few lay people who have seen the light and complain about the simplistic faith of the lay people.  They find succour in each others worst stories.  They remind each other of how liberated they are from their congregations superstitious and legalistic faith and then head back into their parishes with their secret knowledge secure.   At the meetings where they get together they say things like "The church is a theocracy" there for were listen to where God is calling us.  And so long as the lay people comply we think we are doing a good job and we are saving our denomination from the ill fate of fundamentalism that dominates other church groups.   But then we hit a subject like homosexuality.  The people react.  The leaders are bewildered.  We hold the people with disdain for the lack of insight.  The people hold the clergy in disdain because we have never taken them seriously.   I think theocracy is a word used to allow clergy and like leaders to create an apparent ethos that has no real regard for the ordinary member.  I think I would like to go back to democracy.  That is where I have to take seriously what the person in the pew is saying and therefore I have to walk with them and not in front of them.  That IS, after all, where God walks. Many clergy and leaders are embarrassed now because everybody is discovering what our church is REALLY like rather than the church we have been trying to pretend we are.  Its about time.  Now we can start working with reality.   Tom   [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.milman.uniting.com.au Ph: 6862 5502  Mobile: 0427 625 502 14 Bushman St Parkes NSW 2870   'Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable'. I prefer to die living than to live dying! "War is a poor chisel with which to carve out the future." - Martin Luther King, Jr     I've stopped 233 spam messages. You can too! One month FREE spam protection at www.cloudmark.com   --------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: The information in this message and any attachments is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. 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