On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:59:08PM -0700, Shawn Walker wrote: > On 05/27/11 12:15, Jens Elkner wrote: > ... > >However, at least for native, not running zones I can't see any reason, > >why one should not use -R. IIRC in contrast to pkgadd IPS is not running > >any pre/post install scripts anymore. So it basically comes down to a > > But it does allow packages to restart, disable, and/or suspend active > services managed by SMF. That won't happen if you run the command using > the alternate root option for obvious reasons.
If the zone is _not running_ there is no need to restart, suspend a service. And IIRC SMF states are save in a persistent store (sqlite db?) and I don't see a reason, what IPS prevents to make use of it (i.e. use an appropriate lib to read/modify it, e.g. to enable/disable a service) or simply put a "dumb" startup script into $ZPATH/etc/rc?.d ... ... > >Actually, one doesn't really need pkg in a zone, as long as the global > >zone admin is the zone admin as well. And if one starts removing pkg, > >one can continue with python (I mean, who needs this? ;-)), than tcl/tk, > >which opens the door to remove the X11 stuff and groff => ~175 MB less, > >and now we would have something, 234MB vs. 407MB /, I could start with > >without a bitter aftertaste - i.e. probably would not miss sparse zones > >than (except its read-only fs features). > > > >Usually, we would add the jdk and/or some convinience stuff and end up > >with ~515 MB (would be nice, if the visualVM would be a separate pkg, > >since not needed in a zone: ~ -30 MB). For that we certainly need to use > >pkgadd (since pkg has still no relocation switch aka "-a none") - another > >reason to remove pkg and company from the zone and do the > >install/uninstall from outside ... > > I think you need to approach the problem differently. Hmm, well, just trying to plumb the depths of IPS/new zones. And 'til now nobody came up with a suggestion to solve the problems not only we have, i.e. minimize space consumption of/number of packages need to be maintained in a zone, simplify SW/zone management. > Your solution > seems far more complex that necessary Hmmm, for me it turns out to be pretty simple: When I create a zone, I need to determine, what SW and resources it needs/what service it should run. So at least in theory why shouldn't it be possible to give the zone install a "list of packages" it should install. I guess, under the hood it is using such a list (wherever it comes from). Why not making it customizable? IMHO your are making it much more complex, than it has to be, because you are not considering the circumstance/environments, under which the SW is actually used. I guess, 90%+ of the users, which actually run a machine with zones, are doing it similar and as simple as we do: i.e. the admins of the global zone are the admins of the non-global zones as well. And thus there is not really a need to have the pkg SW within the zone installed. Basically, what annoys me is not the pkg SW itself, but the whole bunch of dependencies it introduces to the system: i.e. on servers - Who needs python? - Who needs tcl/tk today? - Who needs X? - Who needs the groff etc., when man pages are not installed anyway? - And who usually needs perl? And this leads to: Much higher space consumption as really necessary of course but also to unecessary downtimes/security risks! Why, because the package software is not really able to determine, whether these packages are actually used and so if installed, they need to be "patched" as well, which in turn yields into to an unecessary reboot ... All this remembers me on an OS, we are trying to avoid to use ;-) So a nice to have would be something like: zone install swtemplate=... (and actually the OS may provide some "common" templates) as well as pkg depend -r $package > and it doesn't follow expected > administrative patterns for the system. Not sure, what it turns out to be for you ;-) ... > Upgrades are handled by the zone system and pkg(1) automatically now as > of build 165. Ahh, ok - thanx! Regards, jel. -- Otto-von-Guericke University http://www.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/ Department of Computer Science Geb. 29 R 027, Universitaetsplatz 2 39106 Magdeburg, Germany Tel: +49 391 67 12768 _______________________________________________ install-discuss mailing list install-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/install-discuss
