Hi Hosnieh,

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

De : Hosnieh Rafiee [mailto:[email protected]]
Envoyé : jeudi 6 juillet 2017 20:09
À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; [email protected]
Objet : Re: [Int-area] Review> SOCKS 6 Draft


Hi Mohamed,

Thanks for your email. I had two reasons:

1- I was not aware of these two documents.. I guess two less activities at 
IETF. right?!

2- I just skimmed the documents you have referred to . They talk about 
mechanisms for IP translation   and authentication and making the NAT easier.

[Med] Actually, both NAT and firewall are addressed by PCP. There is no 
assumption that a NAT must be out there.
   The Port Control Protocol (PCP) provides a mechanism to control how
   incoming packets are forwarded by upstream devices such as Network
   Address Translator IPv6/IPv4 (NAT64), Network Address Translator
   IPv4/IPv4 (NAT44), and IPv6 and IPv4 firewall devices, and a
   mechanism to reduce application keepalive traffic.

But what I do not know exactly or at least with very quick review could not 
find,  is that socks proxy also works closely with firewall and open the ports 
if the client socks wants to communicate to any service outside of the network 
and in general cases the firewall has all its port close unless otherwise the 
client ask to open a port.

[Med] Can be done using PCP, as well.

 I know that NAT has a settings to also work closely with firewall but do not 
know which one has a better performance. Further the default assumption in 
those document is that the NAT service is there.

[Med] No. RFC6887 defines PCP-controlled device as follows:

===

   PCP-Controlled Device:

      A NAT or firewall that controls or rewrites packet flows between

      internal hosts and remote peer hosts.  PCP manages the mappings on

      this device.

===

that means I do not only need to consider the implementation of NAT but also 
these documents. While for Socks, only socks standard is enough which works 
closely with Selinux for firewalling.

Now the question is which process is heavier from computation perspective, NAT 
+ this approach or a socks proxy alone that do the replacement of IP? I haven't 
done any experiment or comparison yet..

[Med] Please see above. The NAT part is not required. Actually, RFC7652 
provides the following:

==

   The mechanism described in this document meets the security

   requirements to address the Advanced Threat Model described in the

   base PCP specification [RFC6887<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6887>].  This 
mechanism can be used to

   secure PCP in the following situations:



   o  On security infrastructure equipment, such as corporate firewalls,

      that does not create implicit mappings for specific traffic.

==

One more important point is that, how NAT will handle TCP connections when we 
have non reliable internet connection that breaks frequently but we cannot 
establish the TLS every single time where the connection breaks?   What I liked 
about Socks 6 that was not in socks5 is that they handled the unreliable 
connection, either by purpose or accidentally, very well since they referred to 
a document such as TCP FAST OPEN.

Further, Socks proxy is  layer 5 protocol and can handle TLS communication 
better than NAT. I am of course not talking about the case to use socks as a 
MITM for my TLS connection. That is not the purpose at all here. But NAT is 
layer 3 or maximum with some configuration layer 4 which has no flexibility to 
session layer.

[Med] I’m not sure to get your last two points.

Best,

Hosnieh






this is of course what I also need or expect to use from Socks as a kind of 
NATing but at the same time the most important thing is its interaction with 
firewall
On 07/06/2017 03:08 PM, 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Hosnieh,

Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason you want to use SOCKS? 
Did you consider other protocols such as:

·         https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6887

·         https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7652

Thank you.

Cheers,
Med

De : Int-area [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de Hosnieh Rafiee
Envoyé : mercredi 5 juillet 2017 21:21
À : [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Objet : [Int-area] Review> SOCKS 6 Draft


Hello,

I quickly reviewed Socks6 document as I was waiting for any initiation to 
improve socks 5. I found it a good document, however, unfortunately the 
security is still weak and this document also did not address that but made it 
worse. I am looking for new methods of authentication as what is available in 
socks5 is just plain text and cannot protect against active attacker and also 
passive attacker if and if there is a fixed value used as a username and 
password.

Further, DDoS attack mentioned also in the draft cannot be addressed as easily 
as explained, IMHO. since the proxy server supposed to receive higher size 
messages and the attacker client can only overwhelm the socks server easier by 
less messages from different IP address that sounds to be a new client.  
Further, for constrained devices, there is a limitation in size of the message, 
therefore, dissimilar to socks5 that could be used also for such devices, socks 
6 cannot be used otherwise there will be limit in the information supposed to 
be sent in one message.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-intarea-olteanu-socks-6-00.html

But in general, that is a good effort, keep going on!

Best,

Hosnieh



_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

Reply via email to