On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 2:53 PM Geoff Huston <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 9 Aug 2019, at 10:27 am, Bob Hinden <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> >> On Aug 9, 2019, at 7:47 AM, Tom Herbert <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> As the document highlights the problems of fragmentation are caused by
> >> nonconformant middlebox implementations. There is nothing inherently
> >> wrong with the fragmentation and end hosts don't a problem with it.
> >> IMO, this is just one example of (some) middleboxes arbitrarily
> >> breaking end to end protocols. I am hopeful that document will also
> >> trigger work to start fixing fix broken middlebox implementations.
> >>
> >
> > I certainly hope so. It’s certainly a big problem for the IETF if any new
> > protocol is constrained by the worst middle box implementation.
>
>
> The picture gained from broad scale measurements points to a current
> reality that removes the conditionality from your observation Bob.
> If the application has to work robustly in today’s network then you
> need to design defensively and not push into areas where actual network
> behaviours deviate from some ideal. I can be as sentimental as anyone
> and decry where we have got to as being far from where we had wanted to
> be, but I’m also sufficiently pessimistic to believe that there is
> insufficient collective impetus to reverse this situation.
... and even if there *is* sufficient impetus, how long would it take
to be sufficiently deployed that my app / library / whatever doesn't
need to worry about breakage?
One of my machines:
$ uptime
14:57:40 up 1304 days, 15:28, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.07, 0.07
>From someone on NANOG, in ~2010:
c2948g-4.sc5> sh ver
WS-C2948 Software, Version NmpSW: 5.5(2)
Copyright (c) 1995-2000 by Cisco Systems, Inc.
NMP S/W compiled on Jul 28 2000, 17:21:27
GSP S/W compiled on Jul 28 2000, 15:57:45
System Bootstrap Version: 4.4(1)
Hardware Version: 2.3 Model: WS-C2948 Serial #: JAB041808VK
Mod Port Model Serial # Versions
--- ---- ---------- -------------------- ---------------------------------
1 0 WS-X2948 JAB041808VK Hw : 2.3
Gsp: 5.5(2.0)
Nmp: 5.5(2)
2 50 WS-C2948G JAB041808VK Hw : 2.3
DRAM FLASH NVRAM
Module Total Used Free Total Used Free Total Used Free
------ ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- -------- ---- ----- -----
1 65536K 34318K 31218K 12288K 8583K 3705K 480K 93K 387K
Global checksum failed.
Uptime is 2333 days, 13 hours, 33 minutes
----------------------
2333 days is 6 years, 143 days; even if we fixed all middlebox
implementations today, we'd still need to wait many years for things
to be upgraded and rebooted.
W
>
> ymmv.
>
--
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
of pants.
---maf
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