Having an ACH channel type per set of structures, or a BoS label value per set 
of structures would be far more consistent with the MPLS model.

Stewart

> On 23 Feb 2021, at 15:27, John E Drake <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Why wouldn’t we just use GAL/G-ACh for this as it is already a published RFC 
> that was designed for things like this?   I.e., we could use a GAL and define 
> families of G-ACh codepoints which describe exactly what is in the area 
> between the MPLS label stack and the payload.  E.g.,  G-Ach for IOAM:  [value 
> #1 = hop by hop IOAM w/ no subsequent metadata, value #2 = end to end IOAM w/ 
> no subsequent metadata, value #3 = hop by hop IOAM w/ subsequent metadata, 
> value #4 = end to end IOAM w/ subsequent metadata].  The subsequent metadata 
> would then have the same basic structure.
> Yours Irrespectively,
>  
> John
>  
>  
> Juniper Business Use Only
> From: mpls <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf 
> Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 10:19 AM
> To: Stewart Bryant <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; Rakesh Gandhi <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Cc: mpls <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>; Kireeti Kompella <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; Ron Bonica <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> 
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [mpls] draft-zzhang-intarea-generic-delivery-functions
>  
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
>  
> Hi Stewart,
>  
> GDFH has both a “this header” (for a particular function) and a “next 
> header”. One GDFH can point to another GDFH, who could also point to another 
> header (e.g. MPLS).
>  
> IOAM could be integrated into GDF. I understand that this is just a thought 
> and we have not concluded on that yet, but with that thought the headers 
> would be like the following:
>  
>    Transport label + GDFH label (BoS) + GDFH (for IOAM) + GDFH (for other 
> functions not already provided by PW itself) + PW label + PW payload or G-Ach
>  
> Depending on the situation, the GDFH (for IOAM) and GDFH (for other 
> functions) could be swapped. The PW label is essentially another label stack 
> – the earlier stack stopped at the GDFH label.
>  
> Now what if IOAM is not integrated into GDF? I see the following in its -06 
> revision:
>     0                   1                   2                   3
>     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>     | IOAM Indicator Label                  | TC  |1|  TTL          |
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<-+
>     |0 0 0 1|Version| Reserved      | IOAM G-ACh                    |  |
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  |
>     | Reserved      | Block Number  | IOAM-OPT-Type |IOAM HDR Length|  |
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  I
>     |                                                               |  O
>     |                                                               |  A
>     ~                 IOAM Option and Data Space                    ~  M
>     |                                                               |  |
>     |                                                               |  |
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<-+
>     |0 0 0 1|Version| Reserved      | Channel Type                  |
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>     |                                                               |
>     |                                                               |
>     ~                 Payload + Padding                             ~
>     |                                                               |
>     |                                                               |
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>  
>      Figure 5: Example MPLS Encapsulation with Another G-ACh with IOAM
>  
> I am not sure if that is a good idea:
>  
> RFC 5586 says “The G-ACh MUST NOT be used to transport user traffic”. To me 
> IOAM traffic is user traffic with OAM information.
> It puts one G-Ach header after another G-Ach header. As far as I understand 
> it, G-Ach does not have a “next header” concept and using 0001b to indicate 
> that another G-Ach header follows is not safe.
> In case PW payload, the above will put the PW label before the IOAM label. 
> Having those extra IOAM/G-Ach headers between the PW+IOAM label and PW 
> payload adds complexity to the fast path processing.
>  
> Jeffrey
>  
> From: Stewart Bryant <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> 
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 7:30 PM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Cc: Stewart Bryant <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>; mpls <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; 
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; Kireeti Kompella <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; Ron Bonica <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> 
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: Re: draft-zzhang-intarea-generic-delivery-functions
>  
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
>  
> What happens if an operator wants to run both iOAM and GDFH at the same time 
> and the packet is a PW packet?
>  
> What does the packet look like and how does the forwarder know what to do?
>  
> - Stewart
>  
> 
> On 22 Feb 2021, at 22:49, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>  
> Hi Stewart,
>  
> This thread started with your comment “Please see the note that I sent about 
> iOAM who also want to sit after BoS … and both of you want the same space 
> that PALS and DetNet is already using”, but now it seems that we’re on the 
> same page – GDFH starting with 0000b is fine and is not competing with IOAM 
> or PW/DETNET CW?
>  
> Thanks.
> Jeffrey
>  
> From: Stewart Bryant <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> 
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 5:15 AM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Cc: Stewart Bryant <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>; mpls <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; 
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; Kireeti Kompella <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; Ron Bonica <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> 
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: Re: draft-zzhang-intarea-generic-delivery-functions
>  
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
>  
> The DetNet CW is described in RFC8964 and is  
>  
>  
>  
>       0                   1                   2                   3
>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |0 0 0 0|                Sequence Number                        |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>  
>                        Figure 5: DetNet Control Word
>  
> In all defined control words
>  
> The 0000 is simply ECMP defeat and has no other purpose.
>  
> 0001 means ACH 
>  
> An ACH is currently defined not to carry service/user data - it is a 
> control/OAM channel.
>  
> You cannot assume anything about a payload starting 0000.
>  
> In MPLS the bottom label (alone) defines how you process the payload. So you 
> know that you have a CW from the bottom label and by no other means.
>  
> In other words the the FEC of the bottom label and its associated parameters 
> are the way that signalling protocol knows what instructions to give the 
> forwarder, and the way that the forwarder knows what to do with the packet is 
> from the instructions associated with the BoS label. This is the universal 
> model for MPLS including for IP packets.
>  
> Stewart
>  
>  
> On 19 Feb 2021, at 15:42, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>  
> Hi Stewart,
> 
> I still have to read more about DetNet, but I am not sure if there is a real 
> contention with PALS.
> 
> My understanding of 0000 nibble in PW control world is that it is only to 
> prevent a transit node from mistaking the payload as IP. Is it supposed to 
> indicate that any payload starting with 0000 is PW payload? I hope not.
> 
> Use of 0000 nibble in GDFH is also just to prevent transit nodes from 
> mistaking it as IP. It does indicate it is GDFH. It should be able to 
> co-exist with PW CW.
> 
> Thanks.
> Jeffrey
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 10:35 PM
> To: Stewart Bryant <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Cc: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; mpls <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; Kireeti 
> Kompella <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; Ron Bonica 
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: RE: draft-zzhang-intarea-generic-delivery-functions
> 
> Stewart, all,
> 
> I apologize for not responding to this in time. I some how accidentally moved 
> a few wg mailing list email folders to a place where I could not see so I 
> missed all the discussions.
> Let me catch up all the emails and then reply.
> 
> Thanks.
> Jeffrey
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stewart Bryant <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 9:59 AM
> To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Cc: Stewart Bryant <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>; mpls <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; 
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; Kireeti Kompella <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; Ron Bonica <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>; <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> 
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: Re: draft-zzhang-intarea-generic-delivery-functions
> 
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> 
> 
> Thank you Jeffery
> 
> Please see the note that I sent about iOAM who also want to sit after BoS … 
> and both of you want the same space that PALS and DetNet is already using.
> 
> We plan to have a joint session on this hosted by PALS at the next IETF, but 
> I think we also need to include the iOAM people.
> 
> This has scope to get very messy as we find new candidates for BoS metadata 
> so we really need to take a holistic position to ensure the future health the 
> MPLS protocol.
> 
> - Stewart
> 
> 
> 
> On 12 Jan 2021, at 14:27, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I just posted 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zzhang-intarea-generic-delivery-functions/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QyBnufJO58LP6Diq96EdYEe2kxFtiItOdNuXbu_RIMekK2pkpOj4Mmj7b9MseV-Y$
>  
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zzhang-intarea-generic-delivery-functions/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QyBnufJO58LP6Diq96EdYEe2kxFtiItOdNuXbu_RIMekK2pkpOj4Mmj7b9MseV-Y$>
>  .
> 
> The initial version was posted to the tsvwg 
> (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions-00__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QyBnufJO58LP6Diq96EdYEe2kxFtiItOdNuXbu_RIMekK2pkpOj4Mmj7b5lS_Jea$
>  
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zzhang-tsvwg-generic-transport-functions-00__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QyBnufJO58LP6Diq96EdYEe2kxFtiItOdNuXbu_RIMekK2pkpOj4Mmj7b5lS_Jea$>
>  ). After discussions/feedback we are re-homing it to intarea wg. This new 
> version also contains quite some changes based on the comments and feedback 
> that we received (special thanks to Stewart).
> 
> Comments and suggestions are appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
> Jeffrey
> 
> Juniper Business Use Only
> 
> 
> Juniper Business Use Only
>  
>  
> 
> Juniper Business Use Only
> 
>  
>  
> Juniper Business Use Only
> 
>  
> Juniper Business Use Only
> 

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