Hola Barry et al!

I am posting this to the discussion list so have removed your email address for security;

A lot of people are thinking along these lines and I'm testing it for
myself.  Here is the history at least in my case.

I received a couple of emails from a guy claiming he was an
ex-consultant for NASA.  He claims he and his friends have many
interesting devices they built and use but which would never be allowed
for marketing.

He told me he bought an off the shelf emergency generator and removed
the gasoline motor.  He added ONE car battery and an electric motor to
run the alternator which feeds the inverter.

He wasn't really clear about the details but swears he has run his house
on it for the past 10 years and only recently replaced the car battery.

Then there was a guy advertising on eBay for a nearly identical system
he was selling for about $900US.  It was an electric motor turning an
alternator which fed an inverter that recharged the battery AND provided
excess power.  No one knows if it was a scam or not.

I have been looking into this and many factors come into consideration.
 Home power generators spin at either 1800 or 3600 rpm.  They generally
produce from 2kw to 5kw and use 2HP or more gasoline or diesel engines,
some as much as 16hp.

One horsepower is 760 watts....and most of these emergency power
generators come as 'gensets', where the motor is built with the

The problem is as you load an alternator, its just like an old Army
field telephone generator...without a load, it spins freely but when you
add a load, it is very difficult to turn..meaning it takes more HP.

Generally car alternators use excited windings, not natural magnets and
produce about 55 amps....so 55 amps X 12volts = 660 watts...remember a
1HP motor takes 760 watts....

So with the alternator fully loaded you are only generating 660 watts,
fully 100 watts less than what it takes to run the motor and so the
system should run down based on basic resistance and current loading.

If it was this simple, I would think we would be deluged with these
devices for sale....so I am working on something similar but am thinking
of using a special permanent magnet alternator which puts out 200amps...

This based on a claimed overunity device that I saw when I met the
inventor Mr. Wilson as detailed in the Tilley files on KeelyNet.

Mr. Wilson told me the secret of his machine was to use these PMA
(permanent magnet alternators) which were in all cars before 1964 or
so...after that, the used alternators which have an extra set of
windings (coil) which produces the magnetic field lines which are cut by
rotation to produce electricity.

So I am debating on the off the shelf generator and modify it or buy one
of these high power PMAs and connect to a motor and battery and inverter
to see if it might run itself and possibly a small load.

Remember, the more the alternator is loaded by high current drains, the
harder it is to spin and the more HP it takes to do so...with one HP
being 760Watts...

One curious note about the eBay offer was the statement that the motor
had to reach 1000 rpm before it would produce enough energy to keep the
motor running...after that, anything else was free energy....

Common sense and calculation of power shows it just won't work...but
there might be something novel going on with the inclusion of the battery...

The other consideration is if you use this to power your home....you
will come into peak, high use cycles where much energy is extracted from
the battery(ies)....and then low use cycles where very little energy is
extracted which MIGHT let it charge up enough to be able to sustain the
times for peak use.

Its certainly worth a shot...it appears from your email that you have
not built this to test it....I have been on this particular scheme since
early December when the ex-NASA guy and I were conversing...he was very
mysterious and has not responded to other emails though we did
communicate twice before he disappeared...he did not respond to my
questions about the specifics of the system for duplication.

Battery runs DC motor or battery runs inverter to run cheaper AC Motor...

That kind of thing....thanks for the idea and I do plan to post photos
and experimental results of my work on KeelyNet...

You mention hooking in additional alternators...remember as you load
them with current draining devices, you are adding resistance which
requires more HP to spin them..so its a self-defeating process...

There are several schemes to tap energy from your car..one involves a
custom designed alternator that attaches to the engine flywheel and
produces an easy 6-7,000 watts from an idling engine...to run your house
on emergency power.  Its an off the shelf purchase available on the

I don't know whether even one alternator would work...first step is to
prove the system would keep the motor running....second step is to be
able to attach a load and see if it runs the thing down....how long, how
much power drained...etc...

And of course these days there are electronic desulphators which will
restore the battery for optimal charge capacity.  Over time sulphation
corrodes the battery electrodes so that you lose charge capacity...sure
it will charge but will run down real quick....if you desulphate the
battery, it holds charge much longer...

Thanks and I hope you try to build one for yourself....any wrecking yard
will have alternators and most appliance repair places will have old
motors you can get fairly cheap...even old car batteries...so it
wouldn't cost much with some scavenging skills.

Graingers and other companies sell 600 watt inverters for about $120 or
so...and you could get 2 or 3 of these hooked into a load panel for
adjustable loads...thats what I'm doing...

I think its just stupid to buy one monster inverter...that costs an arm
and a leg...when houses use breakers that are from 15-20 amps @ 120vac
(1800 watts) which you rarely exceed.  You could connect one inverter to
each breaker to provide 600 watts and space out your loads so as to not
overload it.  If one burns out, its cheap and easy to replace.  Also you
could use it just for lighting and small loads that don't overload the

I use circular flourescent lamps which consume 22 watts but produce
light equivalent to 75 watts...so my house is very brightly lit with a 4
lamp chandelier in the living room to produce roughly 300 watts of
lighting for an actual load of 88 watts.

I don't hold much hope of such a generator system being self-sustaining, let alone able to source other loads, but its worth a shot. There are SO MANY POSSIBLE VARIATIONS to this scheme, maybe one of them might actually work.

I tend to think Mr. Wilson might be closest in his claim that a PMA was the secret to a self-running generator system. And there might be some nuances with batteries that aren't completely understood.

We shall see...thanks for your input and I do hope you build a version to test with even ONE alternator to see if it will self-sustain the motor.

With so many free energy schemes and claims, the inventor goes off the deep end with claims of 10KW and way, way more...when in actual fact, they haven't even been able to power a 100WATT light bulb...

That is why Dr. Hal Puthoff proposed the 'One Watt Challenge'....asking claimants for overunity/free energy devices to provide a prototype that would run ITSELF as well as provide JUST ONE WATT.

To date, NO ONE has come forth with such a self-sustaining system to my knowledge. Many claims, many liars, many con artists, many errors, but the cold, hard fact is we DON'T have any such device despite all our dreams and hopes.

Yet hope springs eternal...and it all resolves to HARDWARE...reproducible devices or circuits which can at the very least demonstrate a reliable proof of principle (PoP).

Good luck and take care!

*        I would rather see this given freely , tho not all bugs are
 worked out , the following is a fuel-less and non-pollutive electric
 source under our noses . Our automobiles is an electric producing
item , all comes from a 12 Volt battery and the alternator . If you
throw an invertor on the battery , this in turn will provide 110
voltage . Of course , this uses fuel and pollutes .

Take a 12V battery , hook an invertor to it , use the 110 from invertor to run an electric motor , this in turn to provide spin for
the alternators . The electric motor can run 4 or more alternators ,
and if an invertor is run from each alternator  , then it in turn
produces 110 from each invertor . Use of one alternator to keep
battery charged to keep system running . My problem , not sure how to
wire this to recharge battery , but am sure it can be done , and am
hoping you might know the person to ask .

I've used a 12V battery with an invertor only to power power tools
out in the woods , middle of nowhere . Works great , but have no recharge , so it drains the battery . This whole unit can be built
for few dollars and be totally self contained in a fairly small box .
 Battery - Invertor - Electric Motor - Alternator . Four seperate
units of this type could power a house , and each unit would not be
overly heavy , but easy to set up on a wheel system . A fuse box
system would need to be used and wired in to protect battery , but
really don't think the wiring all that hard to figure out , but is
one aspect I do not have knowledge of , so am hoping to find help
here .

Clean , noiseless , non-pollutive , fuel-less and once running , never lose electricity ! Keep extra 12V batteries and such to replace
 any part that might fail , but a unit like this should run for years
 problem free , with repair consisting of brushes in the electric
motor and alternators , and belts . Cannot say how long an invertor
would last once in constant use , but once set up  , should last a
year minimum , and at that , could save a household $1200/yr in
electric costs . Total cost of set-up approx. $150 / unit ? if
everything bought knew , but anyone could make this using used
equipment for less .

So , what do you think ? Is this possible , I believe very !

Ps : If an electric car used alternators and it's drive wheels to produce the spin for them , couldn't this recharge the batteries that
 power it , just an afterthought ?

This idea is thought of as small system , but this same system could
be set up in a larger package for more power output . It's all here ,
available , and possible ! I would like to see this given freely to everyone that would like to try it , think it could be an answer for
 power problems out mid-west , but would be nice if all that used it
sent $1 in thanks with half of that going to charities .

              Jerry Decker - http://www.keelynet.com
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           Order out of Chaos - From an Art to a Science

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