Hello! I live in Alaska, and I have a little experience with these Arctic
temperatures. Quite often, we get what we call an 'ice fog', that typically
occurs near the coast, where there is open water. This phenomenon can happen
at any temperature below 32, but it is strongest at temps. well below 0.
Even at 35 below, with completely clear sky's, there is still moisture in
air that will frost everything over. The thought that ice crystals entering
and causing a diesel engine to run is intriguing, and may be possible, but
is much more likely that the engine that 'continues to diesel merrily', has
experienced a mechanical failure due to the extreme temperatures. Anything
that man builds does strange things when it is 40 below. Up here, we must
take measures to insure that our vehicles will start, and run on demand. Any
seals in the motor all always suspect, as they change shape, and size when
this cold. Even a running engine will malfunction, because the ambient air
below) is being drawn through the radiator and over the engine, so all of
the components on the engine are subject to the two temperature extremes,
that of the atmosphere, and that of the warm motor. When this happens,
things on the engine, like the distributor pump, or the carburetor,
literally 'flash over' with frost, and cease to function correctly.
Admittedly, I do not have that much knowledge of what water does under
but I do know that anything put under extreme pressure very quickly will
have never heard of this with water, though. What is the compression ratio
of a diesel engine, 20 to 1,
or 22 to 1? Is this amount of compression enough to boil the water, without
any alteration of the heads?
Also, if any fuel is present, won't this cause the water to burn with the
fuel, which will 'eat up' the
aluminum piston over time, seriously reducing the engine's life? I have seen
a lot of pistons totally
destroyed because of a head gasket leak. The water literally eats holes in
the piston. Of course, this
is a water-anti-freeze mix, so maybe it is actually the anti-freeze doing
the damage. I can see that if water
can be turned to steam within the cylinder, on demand, this would be a very
And one more problem. It is 10 degrees below zero right now here in
how do I keep my water / fuel tank from freezing solid while I buy my
----- Original Message -----
From: "slavek krepelka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Interact" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Keelynet] New variant of Eternal engine.
Hi Jerry at al,
It has been about 4-6 years ago when someone [probably Ren (Marinus)]
has mentioned either to me in our private correspondence or possibly
even in a Keely net post that he has come across rumors that diesel
engines beyond polar circle sometimes refuse to die when the fuel is
shut off merrilly diesling on.
It has nagged at me for all that time and yet I have failed to connect
the obvius (at least for me and now) the working of the Joe's Cell and
the dieseling of the diesel engines as rumoured.
I would suspect that water mist comes in ice crystals in wery cold
temperatures and gets into the air intake amd right into the cylinders
before it has a chance to evaporate.
1) Water forsage is known technology for cutting down on fuel
consumption in gasoline engines (10 - 20%).
a] it cools down the combustion and causes the fuel to burn more slowly
and more completely (anti-detonator / emission tests confirm that)
b) water also evaporates and boost the pressure in the cylinder
increasing the power and therefore the milage.
Even misty weather conditions show this effect.
Of course the gasoline engine has nowhere the compression ratio of a
diesel and water forsage can only enhance the gasoline performance. U
still need fuell.
On the other hand, diesel does have the compression ratio to create
momentary tempertature under the cylinder head near Top Dead Center.
This of course should flash evaporate any liquid (or iced) spray present
in the air in the combustion chamber. So, the stage 1, the flash
evaporation at TDC of compression in a diesel engine is quite
The question is what happens at the stage two, when the piston goes down
and when the water vapor content of the cylinder should theoreticaly
"flash" condense. Here comes the beauty of what water does and does not
do. Water has no tendency to readilly condese even when the temperature
is dramaticaly decreasing. It will condense fairly fast if there is some
liquid water pressent as a "seed" of condensation, or if there is some
chemical compound which would precipitate vapour condensation (like the
silver whatever used in experimental cloud seeding). But even so, it
will do it relatively slowly as the water wapor molecules have to come
into contact with that seeding. Vapour will stay vapor even at and below
ambient as long as the moisture content is below the dew point ratio.
[Which is exactly the reason why dew grows on the gras leaves and does
not come as rain]
Since the diesel engine is lubricated by oil, which of course is not an
agent to be readilly wetted by water, the condensation of water vapor at
stage two of the engine stroke is not likely to take place all that fast
inside the cylinder. Definitely not anywhere near the time the piston
All in all, I am convinced that Vasily has an excellent proposition.
The problem I can see though is a substantial cooling of the engine in
operation. After all, as the water vapor leaves the engine, it carries
away a lot of latent heat locked in it, because it did not condense back
into liquid within the engine. Then you will either end up having to
heat the engine by some outside means (probably through the radiator and
the cooling system from the ambient air), or allow the exhaust vapor to
condense, lets say within the cooling system itself, in order to return
the latent heat back to the engine, or both.
The engine will still use up energy, but it will (if it should really
work and my take is that it would) come from the environment.
Next problem to be solved is actually delivering the liquid water into
the cylinders. I am quite certain that the fuel injection pump and
injectors themselves will not take kindly to having to handle water
instead of the diesel fuel. It would appear more sensible to install a
carb onto the intake manifold ar inlet and run the water through the
carb. This would actually allow for "dual" fuel system, possibly using
diesel oil for a startup and the water for the run, may be even a
combination of both.
The carb on the intake would be a non invasive add upon and relatively
easy to test for a handy fellow, without the risk of compromising a good
fuel injection system in case the whole idea is vhacko.(G)
If anyone were to give it a shot, I can supply what I sell as an air
dryer (I would have to slightly modify it) for recondensation and
recapturing of the latent heat from the engine exhaust to be fed back
into the cooling system. It would work just dandy as it condenses vapor
into liquid water and separates it from an air stream on the run.
My kind regards, Slavek
Jerry Decker - KN wrote:
Hola Vasily et al!
I am posting this to our list to see if there is any feedback, thanks!
Vasily Bezukladnikov wrote:
> - In diesel the air (in following cycles in the cylinder instead of
> air will be already the steam) heat up by compression to 800 *C.
> Injected water at first will cool hot air, which will be compressed
> from cooling by cool water, it will facilitate the further squeeze of
> air by piston. At diminishing of temperature on one degree of Celsius
> any gas decreases on 1/273 part of volume. The water warms up from
> hot jammed air, but pressing of environment of the cylinder hampers a
> boiling of water, though already at temperature 372 *C all water
> accepts a gaseous phase independently from the further growth of