Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
[snip]
The problem here is not as simple as people like to make it sound. Time and time again I see the /. mentality where people berate PHP developers for being stupid and stubborn for not just "fixing PHP" so it is stable and robust with Apache2.
I have explained this a number of time, but here we go again.
[snip]
You make a very strong and compelling argument about why not to use PHP with Apache2 + a multithreaded MPM
And yes, you could use the prefork mpm with Apache2 to avoid the
threading, and yes you could use a standalone fastcgi mechanism to avoid
the threading, but you are going out of your way to avoid the defining
characteristic of the web server you have decided to use.
And then you tack on a fairly weak argument about not using Apache2 + the prefork MPM.
Going form Apache1 to Apache2, aside form filters (which you mentioned in bug 27583) there is the default inclusion of mod_ssl and mod_ldap, better Internationalization features, mod_perl 2.0 (which ONLY works with Apache2), Subversion via WebDAV, and also the fact that many Linux distribution ship Apache2+prefork by default (e.g. Red Hat Enterprise Linux). Some of these features (mod_ldap and mod_perl) are still in the experimental stages and therefore only run in development, but I want to be able to standardize on Apache2 for development and production. To top it off like you said Apache1 is pretty poor on Windows, so I also want to standardize on Apache2 (without PHP) on windows and Linux.
I understand (I think) your opposition to the direction Apache is moving in, and I realize that you personally prefer Apache1, but I think this question has come up enough times to show that there are users out there that want to, and need to, and ARE in fact using Apache2+prefork+PHP in production.
I guess we have to wait until the PHP developers feel the time is right a submit Apache2 to more stringent testing. I'd tell you that our servers have been running it fine, but I doubt we get as many hits as you do over at Yahoo!.
I guess I'll wait and see what the text of the new Apache2 warning says, maybe more Apache2 voices will come out of the woodwork then, but somehow I get the feeling that it is going to be more along the lines of "apache2+worker is evil, and apache1 is better than apache2+prefork" rather than "PHP works with apache2+prefork but is not as well tested as it is with apache1".
Marc
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