On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 5:40 AM Alex Wells <autau...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 6:10 AM Deleu <deleu...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I don't want to use those weird stuff, but I'm >> doing the best I can to replace every single line of old code that has >> been >> written in an era that "best practices for PHP development" were not what >> you and I know today. >> > > I still do not understand why you're expecting the whole PHP project to > put in enormous efforts to keep the backwards compatibility and solve your > problems (temporarily) instead of you doing so. What's stopping you from > using the last supported PHP version by that codebase and fixing or, worst > case scenario, rewriting it if you wish, while on that (non latest) PHP > version? What causes the desperation to update to the latest PHP? Is it new > features or security fixes, or both? > I don't *expect* the whole PHP project to do anything. Let me start by bringing up a quote: > [...] your thoughtful insight on how language changes [...] will help shape proposals in a much more significant way. Disclaimer: This quote is taken out of context, the original message can be found here: https://externals.io/message/110936#110937 As I've mentioned here before, I've seen a few folks bring up the message that I see on this quote as: Voting rights are not necessary to contribute to PHP Internals. PHP is an extremely large ecosystem and bringing community/user voices to internals can greatly help developers understand how the language is being used and how proposals can be shaped to help address concerns that are made aware. I'm not voicing my concerns in the hopes of making my problems your problems and that the PHP core developers should fix it for me. I have been going through a rewrite for the last 6 years and I expect to be done with it in the next 5. Every year we need to go back to the legacy spaghetti and upgrade it for security reasons. It's busywork and adds no real value to us. We still do it and we will keep doing it no matter what. But in the course of doing so, I lost coworkers to Typescript with a reasoning that it doesn't make sense to rewrite our product in a language that will keep breaking the codebase constantly. I'm not here to discuss the merits of their decision because if I 100% agreed with that decision, I wouldn't be here, I would be long gone and developing Typescript fulltime by now. But in my little bubble, losing highly talented PHP developers to Typescript has been a recurring situation and that loss of community members saddens me. So if you could please read my message as "here's what has happened in a small corner of the PHP community that is directly related to what OP has mentioned at the start of the thread (PHP stability). Maybe this is not new information to any of you here and there's nothing that can be improved on it unless someone drops 8 digits of money on the PHP project. Maybe that is a price that PHP has been willing to pay to keep on doing what it currently is doing. Or maybe there are some interesting things that can be taken into consideration. Do what you will with my participation. The only expectation I had when I joined this discussion was respect and that was almost completely met. -- Marco Deleu
