On Tue, Jun 30, 2026, at 00:32, Michal Kral wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Per Seifeddine's suggestion to keep this out of the karma-request
> thread, I'm opening a pre-RFC discussion for scalar object methods --
> calling a small, curated set of methods directly on scalar values, e.g.
> $str->trim(), (3)->pow(2). There's a complete, tested implementation and
> a full write-up (links below); I'd like to surface the strongest
> objections before I write the formal RFC.
>
> Disclosure: I built this with an AI assistant (Claude) as a tool. The
> design and the decisions are mine, and I've independently verified the
> engine behaviour, performance, JIT correctness, leak-freedom and the BC
> scan. Flagging it up front for transparency.
>
> I know "methods on primitives" was proposed and declined before
> (Nikita's 2014 "Methods on primitive types in PHP"). The reason it
> stalled was loose typing: $x->trim() would need a runtime type check and
> would behave differently depending on what $x held. This proposal
> sidesteps that entirely, by generalizing the resolution Nikita himself
> suggested in that thread -- requiring an explicit cast where the type
> isn't already clear.
>
> The idea: dispatch only on receivers the compiler already knows are
> scalar. The method call is rewritten at compile time to an ordinary call
> into an internal backing class -- no runtime type dispatch, no new
> opcode, the object method-call path is untouched. A receiver qualifies
> only if its type is guaranteed syntactically: a literal, a
> (string)/(int) cast, a concatenation/interpolation, a non-nullable
> scalar-typed property, or a call with a declared non-nullable scalar
> return type. An untyped $x->trim() is left exactly as today (Error).
> Crucially, dispatch never depends on optimizer-inferred types, so
> behaviour is identical with and without opcache.
>
> echo " Hello World "->trim()->upper(); // "HELLO WORLD"
> echo (3)->pow(2); // 9
> echo "hello"->length()->pow(2); // 25 -- length():int
> chains into the int methods
>
> So the cast Nikita proposed, ((string) $num)->chunk(), is only needed
> where the type isn't already guaranteed; everywhere else the dispatch is
> sound by construction, with no runtime check.
>
> It's intended as one proposal with two independent votes:
>
> 1. Scalar methods on guaranteed free receivers (the above). A pure
> capability -- it adds a way to call scalar operations and changes
> nothing about untyped code. Proposed initial sets: a small curated Str
> (trim/upper/lower/length + contains/startsWith/endsWith), Int
> (abs/pow/clamp), and Float (round/ceil/floor/abs); bool deliberately
> gets none (its operations are operators, not methods). The sets are
> governed by explicit criteria and are the easiest thing to tune in
> discussion.
>
> 2. Scalar-typed local variables (int $x = ...;, scalar types only),
> which additionally make a typed local a guaranteed receiver (string $s =
> ...; $s->trim()). This is the more contested half -- it also carries the
> "local type discipline" argument -- so it's a separate vote: a "no" here
> ships the capability without typed locals.
>
> What I'm deliberately NOT doing, up front so it's not a surprise:
>
> - No method-call-result receivers ($this->getName()->trim()) -- that
> would rest on return-type covariance under inheritance; not worth the
> surface.
> - Int::abs/pow return int|float (they can overflow, as the global
> functions do), so they're honest terminals -- they don't chain.
> (Int::clamp is the one initial int method provably :int for all inputs,
> so it does chain.)
> - No int|false typed locals -- that's a sentinel state, not a committed
> type; ?T is supported, sentinel-unions are not.
> - The backing classes are internal-only (NUL-prefixed name, like
> anonymous classes): class_exists('Str') is false, no Reflection,
> userland "class Str {}" can't collide.
>
> Implementation status -- this is built and tested, not a sketch:
>
> - Scalar methods add zero new opcodes -- the desugar emits an ordinary
> static call, and the object method-call path is byte-for-byte unchanged.
> (Typed locals add dedicated *_TYPED assignment opcodes, but the untyped
> hot path stays byte-identical.)
> - Performance (deterministic callgrind, release build): the untyped hot
> path is byte-identical; the standard bench.php suite is +0.145%
> instructions, entirely from predicted-not-taken branches in reference
> opcodes only, with zero added cache misses or branch mispredictions. A
> typed-local write benchmarks at ~0.79x the cost of a typed-property
> write -- a check the language already runs on every typed-property write
> since 7.4.
> - References (the objection that sank prior typed-locals attempts) are
> enforced through every path -- =&, by-ref params,
> array/object/static-prop refs, yield, closure capture, $$name, extract,
> $GLOBALS, global -- via the existing typed-property reference machinery.
> Leak-checked under stress.
> - Correct under JIT in all three modes (interpreter, function, tracing
> -- differential byte-identical output). opcache SHM + file_cache
> round-trip verified.
> - BC impact, measured: an AST scan of the 1,000 most-downloaded
> Packagist packages (173k+ files) found zero method-call sites with a
> guaranteed-scalar receiver -- i.e. zero call sites that change behaviour
> (every such site is a fatal error today). Userland Str classes (incl.
> Laravel's Illuminate\Support\Str) coexist with the backing class, verified.
>
> Full write-up (RFC draft, plus the method-set, performance, and
> BC-impact analyses):
> https://github.com/kralmichal/php-src/tree/rfc/docs/scalar-object-methods-rfc
>
> Implementation branches (PHP 8.6-dev base):
> - Primary (scalar methods):
> https://github.com/kralmichal/php-src/tree/rfc/scalar-methods
> - Secondary (typed locals, stacked):
> https://github.com/kralmichal/php-src/tree/rfc/typed-locals
>
> What I'd value discussing before I write the formal RFC:
>
> 1. Does the "compile-time-guaranteed receivers only" framing actually
> resolve the loose-typing objection, or is there a hole I'm not seeing?
> 2. The method-set and naming is the most open part -- is a small
> curated, clean-slate set (distinct from the procedural names) the right
> direction, or a non-starter? How should it relate to the existing
> userland efforts in this space (e.g. Psl)?
> 3. Anything that would sink this before I invest in the full RFC.
>
> Thanks,
> Michal Kral
>
Hi Michal,
This is the part that gets me:
> requiring an explicit cast where the type isn't already clear.
Explicit casting in PHP is *dangerous*:
(int) "123password" === 123
https://3v4l.org/IAF8W
— Rob
