IA>>The problem before was that there was no 1 certain date setting. For

Oh, but there is. It is "use system settings". That is the date setting I 
am looking for, and that's what I will be using in 99% of the cases - 
because apps I dela with don't need multiple timezone support on single 
server - they just need to say "this happened on so-and-so time on this 
server" - and that's it. 

IA>>With the date extension there is one unchanging list (even for win32
IA>>users) that will always be constant. So once you determine the desired
IA>>timezone name you use it without being concerned about system's TZ settings.

But I *want* to be concerned about system's TZ settings - I *want* to use 
exactly the same time system is using. And I did it happily before. Why 
can't I do now? I don't ask you to drop functions _you_ need - I ask you 
not to drop the function _I_ needd - and probably a lot of other people 
that are going to discover it once they install 5.1 would need, only they 
would find it out too late to fix it in 5.1. 

IA>>Yes, initially there will be some short-term pain in converting existing
IA>>apps, but for the long term it'll provide a robust and portable

It's not "short-term pain" - I see no way to convert any app to work with 
this mechanism for 5.1 at all, since this setting is not possible to 
discover from the app. 

IA>>solution. If we add "legacy" flag or INI setting, I feel that we'd be
IA>>taking a step backwards in terms of making applications portable.

I don't see why making application portable requires to break 
already perfectly portable application. And I, personally, don't think 
making the user manually configure each install of the app is a 
portability as I see it, BTW.
If you for some reason which I can not understand can not make date() be 
compatible with old settings - ok, add system_date() then which would 
work as the old date(). Then at least there would be a way to run it on 
5.1 in a portable way.
-- 
Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Products Engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.zend.com/ +972-3-6139665 ext.115

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