On Mar 15, 2015 6:23 AM, "Pavel Kouřil" <pajou...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Leigh <lei...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 15 March 2015 at 08:42, Pavel Kouřil <pajou...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Sure, per-file is better than ini setting, but better doesn't mean > >> good (because it is still a pretty bad approach). The ini setting at > >> least has the option to be turned off in code once everyone realizes > >> it was a bad idea (register_globals via htaccess, for instance), but > >> PHP would be stuck with the declare for a long time - this is not an > >> easily revertable change, once PHP ships with it. > > > > > > The declaration is turned on with code. This is no different to changing an > > ini setting with code, except that it can't be configured globally in > > advance. > > > > Existing code is unaffected. I'm not sure where your "not easily revertible" > > argument is grounded. It's incredibly easy to add/remove declarations at the > > top of a file. > > > > So - are you saying that it would be easy to remove this feature from > the language once people would realize it's register_globals (and any > other settings that change how code behaves) all over again? > > >> The two groups (people who want strong typing and weak typing) will > >> not work *together* though. And it will be a nightmare for everyone > >> working on multiple projects from mulitple clients or so. > > > > > > Pure FUD. Sorry but there is no evidence to back this up. > > > > Well, how can there be evidence when the feature isn't released yet? > But if you read through the discussions about the Dual Mode RFCs, > you'll see that I'm definitely not the only userland developer with > this opinion. > > Also, I can't think of any other language (apart from JS) which has > some settings that change how the code behaves. I'd guess most > languages don't do this for good reasons, but who knows, can't say for > sure. > > > > >> > >> The best approach to have some reasonable > >> type rules is to progressively "strenghten" the rules (as Zeev's RFC > >> tried to do so, but he probably did two steps in one RFC and that's > >> what people dislike about it?). > > > > > > You think the best approach is to progressively and continually break > > working code between versions? How is this approach acceptable ever? > > > > This of course doesn't mean breaking existing code in every version. I > doubt there would be more than 2 or 3 changes to the conversion rules > in foreseeable future with this approach. But I do agree that this > isn't ideal way to do things, but I'd say it's the right one. > > >> > >> I think that PHP's type system would > >> get to some "equilibrium" by this - people wanting stronger typing > >> would tried to introduce it and people wanting weaker one would > >> balance it and eventually there could be a point on which both sides > >> could agree on. > > > > > > No, they would never reach agreement. > > > > "Pure FUD. Sorry but there is no evidence to back this up. " > > (Sorry, I had to - I really do believe that some consensus would be > reached after a while, though.) > > >> I sincerely hope the Dual Mode RFC doesn't pass. I can't imagine the > >> RFC being good for the userland developers in the long run. > > > > > > Apologies again, but I think you don't really understand what is being > > proposed in this RFC. Proponents of strict typing get exactly what they > > want, they can develop their library or entire project in strict mode if > > they want, and if someone wants to use this project or library, but > > themselves want to use weak mode, _nothing breaks_. > > > > Why does everyone reply to the disagreeing opinions with "I think you > don't understand the RFC"? I've seen this happen multiple times in the > discussions with Dual Mode RFC, even when the person understood the > RFC. I am 100% aware that the caller decides the rules, not the callee > and that there's supposed to be interoperability - and yet, I still > strongly disagree with it, mostly because it makes managing multiple > projects (each working with different mode) harder. > > I would generally love to have type hints in PHP 7.0 (with any > reasonable ruleset, be it strongly typed, weakly typed or some middle > ground, I don't care as long as it's only *one* ruleset), but I would > rather have none than the Dual Mode one. > > Regards > Pavel Kouril
Interoperability issues? With an optional language feature? Riiiight
