On 12.08.19 г. 12:06 ч., Benjamin Eberlei wrote:
On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 6:32 AM Andi Gutmans <andigutm...@gmail.com> wrote:

I must admit that the first time I read Zeev’s email I got anxious... but
it is frustrating that PHP has a WAY better runtime than Python and most
other dynamic languages yet is falling out of fashion. It’s strange given
how much better it actually runs (really being unbiased here). One reason
is security perception (which is BS but perception matters) and the second
is arguably some of the historic baggage which makes some folks feel PHP is
hard to master without a manual (we have the best manual).

So many times I have thought “is it time to just take an axe and simplify
it and do a cleanup?”. I actually don’t think we lack many features but
rather lots of stuff I would dump like references, array(), global
namespace for functions(?), type juggling in areas where we should be
stricter, etc... I actually think that having a p++ is risky but it is an
opportunity. I think it’s mostly be an opportunity if we’d be careful about
feature bloat and try and be really aggressive about removing things and
cleaning up. We potentially would get the significant benefits of our
runtime but with a cleaner language. Will non-PHP appreciate it? maybe,
maybe not... I actually do think there’s value of a different brand just
because of the BS perception issues...


Its extremely hard imho to be in fashion all the time and it takes
anticipation to get next years fashion right. Or you can just wait to get
in fashion again with the good things you already have and incrementally
improve them.

Nothing a PHP / P++ fork will do changes the fact that PHP is a C-style
language, and Python gets praise for its easy to read and understand
syntax. Nothing will change the fact that PHP architecture is primarily
shared nothing, and the current hype is "shared everything" with Node.js
(yes i know about Swoole et al). But why bother? A language can't be
everything.

This is the old hype. The new hype is shared nothing, as per lambdas. Next time you hit a lambda you don't know whether it will be the same instance. Also, Node.js can't show it's superiority with lambdas, as the runtime environment takes the work of Node. Also paying per wall clock CPU not by cycles it doesn't matter if you use async a lot, as long as you are not syndicating. This way lambda is again the old style serialized programming where Python and PHP excel.

But this is just my view why PHP will beat JS in the serverless era (it just needs a little more love to be well supported).

Cheers,
Andrey

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