Thanks Chrys, and yes, I agree that "system wide change" depends on where you put your boundaries. I guess I don't disagree that incremental changes can lead systems to be quite different (transformed) from how they were previously. However, I think that there are some problems where we can't afford to wait for small changes that eventually will get us to the tipping point so that someone sneezing at the right moment can tip us over. If, like me, you think there are issues that warrant putting a lot of effort in now to try to achieve a radical change (i.e., to fast-forward all those small changes) then the question must be how the heck can we do that? Relationship building is an important part, so is there an effective speed-dating method we can use?
Also, cognitive science has shown that people rarely have "aha" moments that really lead to a change. There was some research done that showed that where people had formed negative impressions of a colleague, even when confronted with positive behaviours that they could clearly see (an "aha" moment?), this positive behaviour would still be explained in terms of the negative framing that had been used previously. "Oh, s/he's only doing that because ... (some reason that draws on the negative behaviour seen previously)." This suggests it is very difficult to shift people from a previous way of framing. When you transfer this insight into how people from different stakeholder groups, different disciplines, different institutions, perceive one another in their working together on a specific knotty problem, it suggests that getting a transformative/transformational change (in which they don't just say "aha!", but also then push for structural changes that will build on the insight that was gained) is going to be difficult. They'll wobble and bobble around and be attracted back to their previous way of thinking about what needs to be done. A lot of conjecture here, so feedback welcome. Another quick point, I'm not assuming that we can know in advance what interventions will work just asking what benefits could be gained if we think through ways in which we approach situations where things have become somewhat intractable. Have a good weekend everyone! Wndy -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chrys Horn Sent: Friday, 19 September 2008 1:57 p.m. To: intsci@learningforsustainability.net Subject: Re: [IntSci] transformational change and processes Aha this is getting interesting I"m becoming more convinced by the idea of transformational change but I'm not completely there yet. Elizabeth, thank you so much for your idea around change changing the system and Wendy, you have really clarified what you were asking in the email that generated this discussion, thanks. I have strong sympathies for the points you are making - that systems change is different to smaller scale change, but of course how you define your system matters in interpreting this. Human beings are complex systems in themselves and "aha" moments are transformations for the individual. I'm left thinking about a chapter I wrote in my thesis about the transformational economic change that happened in the 1980s in NZ and around the world and realising that it was impossible to decide what 'caused" that change. Yes, there was a tipping point which I'll simplistically call Roger Douglas and his reactions to treasury's pressure to do something. I know less about the thatcher and Regan change process going on at the same time. but what I am sure of is that there were many many changes that went on from the vietnam war onwards (and realistically probably even before that) that gradually destabilised the system so that when Roger came along he only really had to sneeze to tip the system over. If it hadn't been him, it would probably have been someone else in the same position. What 'caused' the transformational change? not Roger - he was just the last straw! So, wendy, your question seems to imply that we need to know what interventions might 'cause' these tipping points, when in fact its more likely that to create lasting, systemic change, there will be many interventions that gradually and unpredictably build on each other. Single interventions are unlikely to do it, but as part of an ongoing and interative process, you may have something. I"m arguing this, because there are a number of change processes that I've been involved with which have created small scale change but probably not systemic change but they may have changed outcomes in the longer term on a range of levels (which I suppose raises the question is the change we are trying to instigate the only one that matters? because part of the processes that I've been involved with has been changes that I didn't expect, and depending on what level we are talking about, they may or may not be transformational (they changed relationships, started ongoing conversations, spawned new joint work projects and teams but they did not solve the bigger problem that we were discussing.) so I"m a fence sitter still, I"m afraid. Cheers Chrys ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++ WARNING: This email and any attachments may be confidential and/or privileged. 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