On Tue, July 24, 2012 4:17 am, Johannes Merkle wrote:
>>   If the mapping between curve and hash function is fixed then I don't
>> see what you mean by "not hash-independent but only curve-independent".
>> Seems that there is nothing independent, it's all fixed.
>
> I have the impression that we misunderstand each other. The solution that
> I propose is to define one new auth method
> ECDSA_generic which indicates that
> - the curve shall be taken from the certificate
> - the hash function shall be the minimum SHA-1/2 function matching or
> exceeding the security level of the curve.

  So the signer says "ECDSA_generic" and the curve is determined from the
subjectPublicKeyInfo and one infers the correct SHA-1/2 algorithm from
the curve. OK, so if the curve is the 320-bit brainpool curve then we always
use SHA-384. Got it.

>>   And there are 7 new brainpool curves so that's 7 new auth methods
>> plus 4 new ones to deal with the non-EC version of DSA for a total
>> of 11 new auth methods to go along with the existing 4. 15 different
>> auth methods just for the digital signature standard!
>>
> Not with the approach I proposed: there is only one method ECDSA_generic.
>
> Note, that for DSA (on EC), it would also be sufficient to specify a new
> auth method DSS_key_length_defined_hash
> accompanied with the requirement to choose the hash function as the
> smallest SHA-2 function meeting the minimum
> requirements of FIPS-186-3.

  Well FIPS 186-3 specifically refers to SP 800-57 for "information about
the selection of the appropriate (L,N) pair in accordance with a desired
security strength for a given time period for the generation of digital
signatures."  And SP 800-57 says that, for example, to produce a
signature valid "beyond 2030" it requires a minimum of 128 bits of
strength (table 4) and that when performing digital signatures of 128
bits of security the valid hash functions are SHA-256, SHA-384, and
SHA-512. You want to restrict such signatures to SHA-256 so it's
not really meeting the requirements of FIPS 186-3.

>>   Yes, it is unfortunate. What's also unfortunate is that the 11 auth
>> methods mentioned above (plus the 3 existing ECDSA auth methods)
>> will probably have to be duplicated for SHA-3 thereby eating into this
>> "scarce resource" of an 8-bit registry even further.
>
> We have the choice: Either spending many assignments out of the 256
> available, or to specify a generic auth method
> deviating from the approach previously tken for ECDSA (but being in
> accordance with the approach taken for DSA).

  But the "generic ECDSA" does not solve the problem with SHA-3. As
you said above, "the hash function shall be the minimum SHA-1/2 function
matching or exceeding the security level of the curve." So how do you
support SHA-3? I guess we could assign a bit (clear=SHA-1/2, set =
SHA-3) but that's getting pretty hackish. Or we could have 2 "generic
ECDSA", one for SHA-1/2 and another for SHA-3. Yuck.

  If only this protocol was designed better....

  Dan.



_______________________________________________
IPsec mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec

Reply via email to