On Fri, July 27, 2012 12:13 am, Yoav Nir wrote:
>
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 9:30 AM, Dan Harkins wrote:
>
>>
>> On Thu, July 26, 2012 8:07 pm, Tero Kivinen wrote:
>>> Dan Harkins writes:
>>>> On Thu, July 26, 2012 1:59 pm, Yaron Sheffer wrote:
>>>>> the fact that we need to study the protocol details and go into the
>>>>> ASN.1 bits to ascertain that we have a problem, strongly suggests to
>>>> me
>>>>> that non-EC DSA is not terribly important. So if we can have a
>>>> *simple*
>>>>> solution that also deals with this problem, fine. Otherwise, let's
>>>> just
>>>>> focus on ECDSA.
>>>>
>>>>  How does one currently indicate the hash algorithm used for non-EC
>>>> DSA
>>>> in IKEv2 today?
>>>
>>> Same way than IKEv1 does it, meaning it is assumed to be SHA-1.
>>
>>  OK, so you're admitting that there's a problem with non-EC DSA in
>> IKEv2. Good, I agree. I would say the inability for IKEv2 to construct
>> a signature that is valid today according to FIPS 186-3 is a problem
>> and we should address it.
>
> Is that "we" as in the IPsecME group, or "we" the design team? Either way,
> non-EC DSA is hardly used. There are effectively zero certificates on
> https servers using it. People preferred RSA even in the days when RSA had
> to be licensed and DSA was free. Why do we need to fix it now?

  I meant "we" as the WG. I think this design team is working at the
pleasure of the WG anyway.

  I'm not sure why a survey of https servers can accurately gauge the use
of DSA in IKEv2. One could also look at it in the light that the SHA-1-only
nature of DSA in IKEv2 only became a problem recently (as FIPS 186-3
and SP 800-57 say such signatures were valid only through 2010). The
reason we need to fix it now is that IKEv2 cannot produce a valid DSA
signature today and unless IKEv3 is just around the corner I'd say we
should fix it in IKEv2 (and given the sound of crickets I hear every time
I bring up IKEv3 I'm less inclined to think it's just around the corner).

>>> Also I would be more happy to reuse the stuff from PKIX than adding
>>> new registy for hashes. This would simplify the auth payload
>>> processing too as the domain parameters and hash both could be seen
>>> from the same place (i.e. from the auth payload) and then we do not
>>> need to add stuff to this registry when new hash functions are added,
>>> we can just assume someone will allocate oids for them.
>>
>>  The domain parameter comes from the CERT payload not the AUTH
>> payload. In any event there's 1 bunch of 8 RESERVED bits and then on the
>> next aligned ulong there's another 24, that's 32 available but disjoint
>> bits. How do you propose encoding an OID into the AUTH payload?
>
> One way is to just place the ASN.1 structure similar to a certificate
> signature: a sequence containing an OID and a bitstring. That structure
> can be placed there as the "Authentication Data" field. The only issue I
> have with that is that there is no negotiation about support for the
> algorithm, so the OID may turn out to be ECDSA-with-SHA2-224 when the
> receiver does not even support SHA2-224, but that problem exists also with
> encoding the SHA2-224 in the currently reserved fields.
>
> The advantage is that no specification would need to be updated when a new
> hash function is defined. As long as it has an OID, the spec supports it
> with no change.

  Yes that would work. Since there would be a new AUTH method we could
overload the Authentication Data field. It seems sort of a "6 of one; half
dozen of the other" kind of thing but I guess "we" can decide that.

  Dan.


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