Hi Valery,

Thank you for the remarks. See my comments in the text.


On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Valery Smyslov <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> some comments on the draft-mglt-ipsecme-keep-old-**ike-sa-00.
>
> 1. Draft makes some suggestions that IKEv2 allows IKE SA to
>    be silently deleted after successfull rekey. From my understanding
>    of IKEv2, it is wrong, as RFC5996 states several times that
>    IKE SA may be silently deleted only in case of fatal error,
>    like SYNTAX_ERROR, or when peer doesn't respond.
>    In all other cases, including rekey, SA must be deleted
>    explicitly, by sending Delete Payload to the peer.
>    From my understanding, it is initiator of rekey, who is
>    responsible for sending Delete Payload after rekey succeeded.
>    If it doesn't send Delete Payload, old IKE SA will be kept,
>    even without special notifications.


That is right. My understanding of RFC5996 is also that it is wrong, and my
understanding is that if removed, the IKE_SA MUST be removed with a Delete
Payload. However, I am not sure all implementations do so. We tested with
Strongswan, and when an (IKE_SA + CHILD_SA). It looks that all CHILD_SA
attached to the IKE_SA are rekeyed and removed with Delete Payload, but the
IKE_SA does not seem to be deleted with Delete Payloads. On the other hand
ipsec statusall does not show the old IKE_SA. We thus assumed the old
IKE_SA has been deleted. We have asked to the Strongswan ML for
confirmation.


> So, the name KEEP_OLD_IKE_SA
>    for the notification is probably a bit misleading, as old IKE SA
>    will be kept in any case untill initiator of rekey explicitly deletes
> it.
>    I think that the real purpose of this notification is to tell responder,
>    that this is not a rekey, but a request to clone old IKE SA,
>    and that in this case responder must not move all child SAs
>    from old IKE SA to the new one. Maybe the better name would be
>    CLONE_IKE_SA.
>

Absolutely right CLONE_IKE_SA is much better in all senses. I am buying it!

>
> 2. Is there a real value for "Code Values" field? There are two possible
>    values listed - "Keep Old IKE_SA" and "Unused Old IKE_SA".
>    As far as I understand, the former is used if initiator wants
>    to keep SA, and the latter - if it doesn't. But this may be
>    indicated by the precence of notification (keep) or the absence
>    of it (normal rekey, don't keep).
>

The main purpose of the "Code Values" was to mention there is room for
other actions and see if there are. The draft only concerns the IKE_SA, but
we may extend it in the future to CHILD_SA for example. But I agree that
for the current use, it only clarify the default default behavior.

>
> 3. What is the purpose of "Question Bit"?
>
> The Question / response is handled in the IKE header, so we can remove it.


> 4. I very much don't like the idea to combine this notification
>    with IKE_AUTH exchange, described in Appendix B.5.
>    First, IKE_AUTH is already very complex due to a lot of
>    options and making it more complex must be very well
>    justified. I don't think that reducing a round trip is
>    good justification here. And second, it will not be
>    backward compatible, as initiator doesn't know yet if
>    responder supports this extension, but already uses
>    modified IKE_AUTH exchange. As result - unsupporting
>    responder will be choked by the presense of extra SA, N, KE
>    payloads and most probably returns INVALID_SYNTAX.
>
> Your feedback is very important, thanks. I will add it to the next
version. This also convinces me to have a CLONE_IKE_SA_SUPPORTED Notify
Payload.

5. Typo in the first sentence of B.2 - two "the' and extra "set" (or
> "establish").
>
> ok thanks


> Regards,
> Valery Smyslov.
>
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-- 
Daniel Migault
Orange Labs -- Security
+33 6 70 72 69 58
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