Hi Yoav,

You are right. Would the word "generate" more appropriated ?

OLD:

This document defines how to compute the nonce locally when it is implicit.
It also specifies how peers agree with Internet Key Exchange version 2
IKEv2 on using an implicit IV versus an explicit IV.

NEW:

This document defines how to generate the nonce locally when it is
implicit. It also specifies how peers agree with Internet Key Exchange
version 2 IKEv2 on using an implicit IV versus an explicit IV

BR,
Daniel

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Yoav Nir <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi, Daniel
>
> I think since we didn’t go with some of the wild ideas that would allow
> implicit IV in CBC, the verb “compute” here is somewhat confusing. We’re
> pretty much just copying the sequence number. “Compute” implies something a
> bit more CPU intensive.
>
> Yoav
>
> On 15 Jun 2016, at 10:50 PM, Daniel Migault <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I hope this has been clarified. In order to clarify this I updated the
> text in the intro:
>
> OLD:
> This document defines how to compute the nonce locally when it is
> implicit. It also specifies how to negotiate this behavior within the
> Internet Key Exchange version 2 (IKEv2 - RFC7296).
>
> NEW:
>
> This document defines how to compute the nonce locally when it is
> implicit. It also specifies how peers agree with Internet Key Exchange
> version 2 IKEv2 on using an implicit IV versus an explicit IV
>
>
> Please let us know if that address your purpose.
>
> BR,
> Daniel
>
> On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Yoav Nir <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Paul
>>
>> On 10 Jun 2016, at 5:42 AM, Paul Wouters <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, 9 Jun 2016, Daniel Migault wrote:
>> >
>> >> Please find our new proposal with ESP using implicit IV [1]. We would
>> like to present and discuss it at the next IETF meeting.
>> >
>> > I must understand it wrong...
>> >
>> > Aren't these IVs different per ESP packet? And unrelated to IKE
>> > values? How do both parties calculate the IV if it is not send as part
>> > of the packet?
>> >
>> >> From what I understand, only part of that comes from IKE (aka the salt
>> > values that are taken from the IKE KEYMAT). As far as I understand, it
>> > still needs to be unpredictable?
>> >
>> > If this IV somehow comes from IKE, it might be very tricky for FIPS
>> > certifications, because the security of the ESP IV then depends on
>> > the IKE userland.
>> >
>>
>> All the algorithms we mention in the draft (AES-CTR, AES-GCM, AES-CCM,
>> ChaCha20-Poly1305) require a nonce that is given in the IV field of an ESP
>> packet.
>>
>> For all of those algorithms, the respective RFC recommends to use a
>> counter to guarantee nonce uniqueness. Yes, you can use an LFSR instead,
>> but a counter is simpler.
>>
>> ESP already has a counter - the packet sequence. If you follow the advice
>> in the RFCs the ESP header will look like this:
>>
>>  0                   1                   2                   3
>>  0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ----
>> |               Security Parameters Index (SPI)                 | ^Int.
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Cov-
>> |                      Sequence Number                          | |ered
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | ----
>> |                              IV                               | |
>> |                                                               |
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | ----
>>
>>
>> And the Sequence Number and IV fields will hold the exact same number,
>> except that one is 32-bit while the other is 64-bit.
>>
>> Our draft simply negotiates omitting the IV field since it is redundant.
>>
>> Hope this helps
>>
>> Yoav
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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