Hi Adam, Welcome to Isis, and thanks very much for your interest and the good work you've already done so far!
Since you've made a number of points, I've commented on them inline.... On Thursday, 14 June 2012, Adam Howard wrote: > > I started reading Dan's book last fall and made it part way through the > carserv example app using Isis 0.1.2-incubating. I used the DnD viewer > almost exclusively, enjoying how tangible the objects became using the > multi-window interface. > > > About a month ago I came back to the book and decided to start writing my > own little app alongside carserv. I grabbed the latest Isis quickstart > archetype (0.2.0-incubating) and started coding. Surprisingly, I saw that > the DnD viewer was no longer included as standard in the archetype. I used > the HTML viewer for about a week but it just didn't feel the same. With the > DnD viewer I could look at my object representations and it would help > drive my modeling. "Oh, I need a relationship here so I can drop this > object on that one." > Like you, I also have a soft spot for the DnD viewer, and Rob does too of course because it's his baby. It's also the viewer that's used on the big system in Ireland, used by 2,500+ people on a day-to-day basis. On the other hand, the DnD viewer, let's say, not the prettiest of UIs. (For myself at least) I'm pretty sure lots of people have seen it and got turned off by Isis / the naked objects pattern.... As you've probably realized, the DnD viewer code itself has not been deleted. However, we removed it from the archetype because: * we wanted to try to include only the stuff that was "complete", and in its current incarnation a few new features are only semi-implemented * its status was becoming less clear with the move to remove the remoting stuff * to figure out what it's positioning should be within the context of the other viewers. Where I think we are now is that we see the DnD viewer as being resurrected, but positioned solely as a design tool for developers. At some point Rob needs to do some tidy up work to remove the semi-implemented features and get it back to where it was (ideally: I'd like it to look like NOF 3.0.3, with the collections on the left). As and when that's done, I'll add it back into the archetype. In the meantime, you can of course create a Maven module and reference the viewer; the module generated from the 0.1.2-incubating archetype will probably work just fine (save change the version of Isis referenced, obviously). > > This got me wondering. Could a browser-based multi-window interface be > built on top of the JSON viewer and a javascript ui library? I looked at > all the contenders (YUI, jQuery, MooTools, Backbone, ExtJS) and finally > settled on jQuery after seeing this blog post [1] and looking at the > jqMobile example. > Indeed. And in fact a chap called Johan Andries had the same idea and spent some time putting together an early JS application against the Restful interface using JQueryUI and Backbone. He's also shared his code, at [5]. > > I've been playing with it for the past couple weeks and I'm at the point > where I wanted to know if this is something the community is interested in. > I know it's ANOTHER viewer and I'm making no claims that it's ready (or > will ever be ready) for anyone else to use. I'm really asking if the ideas > embodied in the DnD viewer are still desired? Yes, I think they are. In fact, Johan's viewer also uses the DnD as its metaphor. I had a quick play with your app [4] (though not for long) and I think that Johan has gotten a little further with his framework than you. That said, he doesn't seem to have done any work on it since Nov last. So, one option you might want to explore is to contact Johan and either join his project, or fork it and take it from there. For myself, I was thinking that a GUI based on ExtJS might do well as a sovereign style app... but I can't see myself starting on that this year (2012). > The most important to me > being multiple objects on a virtual desktop that you can visually layout to > increase understanding. > Agreed. Also, with toolkits such as SenchaTouch, I think there are opportunities for very interactive UIs that can be deployed on iPADs and the like. > > All of the latest developments I've seen, both in Isis and NakedObject.NET, > have centered on single-object view web layouts. Was it discovered that the > desktop metaphor viewers were lacking for some users? The next generation of the Irish government project is indeed moving to Naked Objects MVC. It's too early to say how that will pan out. However, the issue with the DnD viewer is mostly its architecture: the client/server remoting protocol, and having to maintain client-side cache of objects and managing transient/persistent objects and lazy loading over the wire. The Irish app which runs under this architecture does work, but the sordid little secret is that there are a number of hacks under the covers to get it to do so. But this is why the Restful interface (per the json-viewer) is so important, I think: it will enable different types of viewers with whatever UI paradigm fits, but on a solid, scalable, back-end architecture . So... I would say, go for it and build a DnD (or whatever) viewer, using the restful API. There's no reason not to. > The new web viewers > are great but they don't give me the same sense of exploration as the > original GUI. Maybe that exploration isn't needed after the model > solidifies and the app is being used. > > Anyway, sorry for rambling. Not at all... very interested to hear your thoughts. > I tried something new and posted my little app > on Heroku. If I understand the service right you can access the JSON viewer > [2], the HTML viewer [3] and my "windowed" viewer [4] at the urls below. It > might take a few seconds to spool up. Credentials are sven/pass. Tested in > Chrome, FF, and Safari. > Heroku: that's on my todo list to look into. I might pick your brains. > > Again it's nowhere near complete but you can execute actions, view objects > and collections, create objects and modify properties (mostly.) > > Thanks for creating a wonderful framework to build on. > Thanks for the kind words, looking forward to continuing the conversation! Cheers Dan > -- > Adam Howard > > [1] > > http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/javascript-ajax/creating-a-windows-like-interface-with-jquery-ui/ > [2] http://simple-dusk-6870.herokuapp.com > [3] http://simple-dusk-6870.herokuapp.com/htmlviewer > [4] http://simple-dusk-6870.herokuapp.com/services.html [5] http://code.google.com/p/restfulobjects-js/
