Julien,

Perhaps what is needed is an MPLS/GMPLS capabilities advertisement which lists 
explicitly what are the advertising node's capabilities.  I seem to remember 
some work years ago regarding the migration from MPLS to GMPLS and their 
attendant coexistence, and that might be useful as a starting point.

I am copying Adrian and Lou w/ the expectation that their memories are better 
than mine.  

Yours Irrespectively,

John


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Isis-wg [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg
> (ginsberg)
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 2:45 PM
> To: Julien Meuric <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Adoption poll for draft-hegde-isis-advertising-te-
> protocols
> 
> Julien -
> 
> I point out the newly added Section 6 in
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Disis-2Dte-
> 2Dapp_&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=CRB2tJiQePk0cT-h5LGhEWH-
> s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5VE&m=vRDDozQWVQuCQeQnNkzN6VSK3Plqawlv4L7W0R
> FNJ-Y&s=iiYJ0nRe9SlDwIoqwDZMGaiHCU4VYT_QsXyoGhaKOJc&e= .
> If you have not read this new section please do so. It may help explain why I
> think draft-hegde-isis-advertising-te-protocols is unneeded.
> 
> As regards advertising RFC 3473 support and/or other RSVP related 
> capabilities,
> my opinion is unchanged. This first needs to be discussed in the appropriate
> WG (teas, ccamp, mpls - I leave that to yourself and others to choose) so that
> consensus on this requirement is first established. Then, if needed, an
> appropriate way to advertise this support (both in IS-IS and OSPF) would be
> defined. But IMO this does not belong in either of the two drafts mentioned
> above.
> 
> I understand that you may still disagree.
> 
>    Les
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Julien Meuric [mailto:[email protected]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:38 AM
> > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>
> > Cc: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Adoption poll for
> > draft-hegde-isis-advertising-te- protocols
> >
> > Hi Les,
> >
> > My original post was discussing two parallel items:
> > - my unconditional support to the adoption of
> > draft-hegde-isis-advertising- te-protocols (irrespective of the
> > decision about my following proposal),
> > - a candidate use case, to be discussed "once WG document".
> >
> > For clarification, let me try to summarize the open questions:
> >
> > 1- Do we need to advertise RFC 3473 support on a per link basis?
> > You seem to argue that combining RSVP link advertisement and 3473
> > support as a node advertisement (RFC 5073) may address the issue. Fair
> > enough, provided implementations do support all necessary TLVs.
> > [Otherwise, collocated bits are not a big deal: RFC 5073 did not block
> > on a "qualitative" boundary between the M bit and the G bit.]
> >
> > 2- Should we restrain ourselves from improving an in-progress
> > specification where presence/absence of advertisement imply a support
> > that "depends upon the application"?
> > You say yes, I say no (you say goodbye...). Application-specific
> > semantics are an error-prone way to convey a basic binary information.
> > [To map it onto the example above, combining advertisement with
> > application-specific semantics before linking it to a barely
> > implemented node-related TLV would clearly limit the number of
> > implementations actually able to identify if a 3473-compliant RSVP
> > message can be sent to control a given link.]
> >
> > 3- When the poll in progress concludes, if the rough consensus on "2"
> > favors explicit capability advertisement, what solution should we progress?
> > The more I think about it, the more I believe that requesting a flag
> > allocation (e.g. 0x04) from sub-TLV 19 (created by RFC 5029) deserves
> > to be considered as part of the solution space for draft-hegde-isis-
> advertising-te-protocols.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Julien
> >
> >
> > Oct. 23, 2017 - [email protected]:
> > > Julien -
> > >
> > > My position on WG adoption of
> > > draft-hegde-isis-advertising-te-protocols
> > (opposed) and the reasons why have been stated in an earlier post to
> > the list.
> > >
> > > draft-hegde-isis-advertising-te-protocols is discussing how to
> > > signal
> > whether an application which makes use of link attribute
> > advertisements  is enabled on a link. For the purposes of this
> > discussion the application is specifically RSVP.
> > >
> > > Your post is discussing a quite different thing. Given that RSVP is
> > > enabled
> > you are asking/suggesting that we might want to also signal certain
> > specific capabilities of RSVP - which is a qualitatively different thing.
> > > I believe that is out of scope for
> > > draft-hegde-isis-advertising-te-protocols
> > (and draft-ietf-isis-te-app).
> > >
> > >    Les
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Julien Meuric [mailto:[email protected]]
> > >> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2017 5:16 AM
> > >>
> > >> Hi Les,
> > >>
> > >> I am not sure I am following you.
> > >>
> > >> As per the abstract in draft-hegde-isis-advertising-te-protocols,
> > >> all I am talking about is "a mechanism to indicate which traffic
> > >> engineering protocols are enabled on a link in IS-IS." At this
> > >> stage, are you questioning the relevance of the poll to the IS-IS
> > >> WG? (In case we really had considered another WG for this I-D, we
> > >> would certainly have ended up in TEAS, not in CCAMP nor MPLS).
> > >> In case mentioning the node counterpart is confusing, please ignore
> > >> RFC 5073.
> > >> In case joining Chris B's open discussion about renaming the "TE
> > >> protocol sub- TLV" is not obvious, please do not consider that as a
> > >> prerequisite to adopt the I-D.
> > >>
> > >> You suggest RFC 5029 as a candidate solution for
> > >> draft-hegde-isis-advertising- te-protocols (section 3). That would
> > >> save us a sub-TLV codepoint and leave us 14 bits instead of 32.
> > >> This looks
> > like a reasonable way forward to me.
> > >>
> > >> By the way, the suggested value for the sub-TLV in
> > >> draft-hegde-isis- advertising-te-protocols is already allocated!
> > >> Shraddha/Chris, could you please drop suggested codepoints from the
> > >> I-
> > D?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Julien
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Oct. 21, 2017 - [email protected]:
> > >>> Julien -
> > >>>
> > >>> I think the issue you raise first needs to be discussed in CCAMP
> > >>> (or perhaps
> > >> MPLS) WG. If there is agreement that this is a problem which needs
> > >> to be addressed then a draft can be written. Perhaps this is RFC
> > >> 5073bis
> > >> - perhaps something else.
> > >>>
> > >>> As far as link level signaling, in IS-IS there is already
> > >>> provision for that using link attributes sub-TLV defined in RFC 5029:
> > >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.iana.org_
> > >>> assignments_isis-2Dtlv-2Dcodepoints_isis-2Dtlv-
> 2Dcodepo&d=DwICAg&c
> > >>> =HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=CRB2tJiQePk0cT-h5LG
> > >>> hEWH-
> s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5VE&m=vRDDozQWVQuCQeQnNkzN6VSK3Plqawlv4L7W0R
> F
> > >>> NJ-Y&s=j3pCfLzDhjBl4INO9pPA-Ml_3plUlQfcL_Nln7apnbk&e=
> > >>> in
> > >>> ts.xhtml#isis-tlv-codepoints-19of22
> > >>> If signaling is required to address the issue you raise that would
> > >>> be the
> > >> most appropriate place to do it.
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't think your issue is in scope for either
> > >>> draft-hegde-isis-advertising-te-
> > >> protocols or draft-ietf-isis-te-app.
> > >>>
> > >>>    Les
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: Isis-wg [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> > >>>> Julien Meuric
> > >>>> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2017 7:15 AM
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I support the adoption of
> > >>>> draft-hegde-isis-advertising-te-protocols
> > >>>> as a foundation for a WG item. A per-link "Capability sub-TLV"
> > >>>> (the term "protocol" might be too specific here) really adds a
> > >>>> missing piece after RFC 5073.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Once WG document, we may discuss an additional use case suggested
> > >>>> by that RFC: on top of RSVP-TE support, distinguish between
> > >>>> 3209-only and 3473-capable. Indeed, there are parameters like
> > >>>> SRLGs that were defined as part of GMPLS extensions: an
> > >>>> implementation
> > >>>> (wildly) guessing RFC
> > >>>> 3473 support from that would not be fully wrong. Similarly, an
> > >>>> implementation may perfectly support 3473 even if it has not
> > >>>> explicitly advertise a PSC switching capability on a given link.
> > >>>> Let us make these explicit!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> My 2 cents,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Julien
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Oct. 07, 2017 - Christian Hopps:
> > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The authors have requested the IS-IS WG adopt
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker
> > >>>>> .ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dhegde-2Disis-2Dadvertising-2Dte-2Dp&d=DwIC
> > >>>>> Ag&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=CRB2tJiQePk0c
> > >>>>> T-h5LGhEWH-
> s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5VE&m=vRDDozQWVQuCQeQnNkzN6VSK3Plqawl
> > >>>>> v4L7W0RFNJ-Y&s=urLF6Ya-h-JyUcprEz-
> 6Wi8Xa0TYy4wjOrn_Ek21tl8&e=
> > >>>>> ro
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>> cols/
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> as a working group document. Please indicate your support or
> > >>>>> no-support for taking on this work.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Authors: Please indicate your knowledge of any IPR related to
> > >>>>> this work to the list as well.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>> Chris & Hannes.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Isis-wg mailing list
> > >>>>> [email protected]
> > >>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.or
> > >>>>> g_mailman_listinfo_isis-
> 2Dwg&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBX
> > >>>>> eMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=CRB2tJiQePk0cT-h5LGhEWH-
> s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5V
> > >>>>> E&m=vRDDozQWVQuCQeQnNkzN6VSK3Plqawlv4L7W0RFNJ-
> Y&s=0uBaEWzChU8vMa
> > >>>>> X_gnFWcaHmV_ScWM7cZMZtSoIkgEI&e=
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> Isis-wg mailing list
> > >>>> [email protected]
> > >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org
> > >>>> _mailman_listinfo_isis-
> 2Dwg&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeM
> > >>>> K-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=CRB2tJiQePk0cT-h5LGhEWH-
> s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5VE&m
> > >>>> =vRDDozQWVQuCQeQnNkzN6VSK3Plqawlv4L7W0RFNJ-
> Y&s=0uBaEWzChU8vMaX_gn
> > >>>> FWcaHmV_ScWM7cZMZtSoIkgEI&e=
> > >>>
> _______________________________________________
> Isis-wg mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_isis-
> 2Dwg&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=CRB2tJiQePk0cT-h5LGhEWH-
> s_xXXup3HzvBSMRj5VE&m=vRDDozQWVQuCQeQnNkzN6VSK3Plqawlv4L7W0R
> FNJ-Y&s=0uBaEWzChU8vMaX_gnFWcaHmV_ScWM7cZMZtSoIkgEI&e=

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