Assalamu Alaikum
jessica wrobleski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
banning and freezing are 2 different things to
freeze something is to temporarily stop it usually in
performing maintenance to it to ban something is to
permanently stop or abolish it.
My Reply
In my opinion it would have been much better if Tariq Ramdan had called for better implementation of the Hudud Laws than for freezing of it. If we take his lead we should implement it in other areas of Islam where the Muslim world does not agree. On this theme, given below is a post which I sent to other groups in the forum. I hope the readers will put the message that I am trying to pass along in its proper context.
Should We Call for a MORATORIUM on Salaat OR On ISLAM ITSELF
GENEVA, March 30, 2005 (IslamOnline.net) - Tariq Ramadan, a world-renowned Muslim thinker, issued Wednesday, March 30, 2005 a call for an international moratorium in the Muslim world on the application of Hudud (prescribed Islamic penalties), a call likely to stir controversy among Muslim scholars.
We are officially launching today an international call for an immediate suspension on corporal punishment, stoning and the death penalty in all majority Muslim countries, Ramadan said in a press release obtained by IslamOnline.net. This call for a moratorium is being made considering that the opinions of most Islamic scholars is neither explicit nor unanimous (indeed even without a clear majority) as far as the comprehension of the texts and to the application of the Hudud.
http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2005-03/30/article07.shtml
Comments - Mine
It will be not surprising to see a bright individual/s taking the cue from Tariq Ramadan & using his logic call for a moratorium on other aspects of Islam like Salaat or on Islam itself. Their argument would be that the Muslims cannot agree, to use the words of Tariq Ramadan is neither explicit nor unanimous (indeed even without a clear majority) as far as the comprehension of the texts and to the application of it.
Take for instance the subject of Salaat it seems that the certain sections of the Muslims cannot agree on the following aspects of it:
· Is the Kaaba which they are facing during their Salaat an idol or not.
· Does the Salaat involves physical motions or not
· How many times a day Salaat to be performed & how many rakaats for each salaat
· Is the Salaat practiced by the Muslim World at present copied from Zorastrianism.
When it comes to Islam it seems that the Muslims cannot agree on its sources:
· Some say only the Quran is the source.
· Some say the Quran & the Written Sunnah (Hadith) is the source.
· Some say the Quran & the Unwritten Sunnah is the source.
With everybody worth his / her salt while branding all past, present & future scholars of Islam as fraud giving his / her interpretation of Islam it will not be long before somebody comes up with this suggestion. God Forbid.
May Almighty Allah show us all to the true path of Islam. Not the path of the deviants.
AB
"For to us will be their return; then it will be for us to call them to account." (Holy Quran 88:25-26)
jessica wrobleski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
salaam, banning and freezing are 2 different things to
freeze something is to temporarily stop it usually in
performing maintenance to it to ban something is to
permanently stop or abolish it. i think by him
freezing it is drawing the well needed attention to
the matter rather than just making a pointless speech
that only a selected few will listen to and even fewer
will obide by. and yes the west will always have
stones to throw but that doesnt mean supply them the
stones.. if you can fix problems you should secondly
whats the use of having a hudud when its being abused
and not rationed out equally? what justice is in that
if some people are still excaping it? your arguement
made no sense its not being abandoned entirely as i
already said.. you would have a case if it said "tariq
ramadan calls for hudud abandonment" but the title
says freeze and i have already explain these are 2
different meanings..moratorium means postponing or
freezing not banning here is the dictionary definition
for you
Main Entry: mor·a·to·ri·um
Pronunciation: "mor-&-'tOr-E-&m, "mär-, -'tor-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -riums or mor·a·to·ria
/-E-&/
Etymology: New Latin, from Late Latin, neuter of
moratorius dilatory, from Latin morari to delay, from
mora delay
1 a : a legally authorized period of delay in the
performance of a legal obligation or the payment of a
debt b : a waiting period set by an authority
2 : a suspension of activity
We are officially launching today an international
call for an immediate moratorium on corporal
punishment, stoning and the death penalty in all
majority Muslim countries, Ramadan said in a press
release obtained by IslamOnline.net.
meaning no one gets their head cut off or stoned to
death until the scholars can establish equal justice
and then afterwards the trials of hudud can continue
so where does it say people who have committed crimes
go free and if so isnt there already rich people going
free like tariq ramadan is saying the whole hudud
freeze is about in the first place?
Ramadan further said the political systems and the
state of the majority Muslim societies do not
guarantee just or equal treatment of individuals
before the law. A still more grave injustice is that
these penalties are applied almost exclusively to
women and the poor, the doubly victimized, never to
the wealthy, the powerful, or the oppressors.
Furthermore, hundreds of prisoners have no access to
anything that could even remotely be called defense
counsel. Death sentences are decided and carried out
against women, men and even minors (political
prisoners, traffickers, delinquents, etc.) without
ever given a chance to obtain legal counsel.
think about it how can you continue to say that its
wrong to try to stop injustices? if there will be
injustices they will be going on whether or not he
does the freeze so what do we have to lose by this
like you said the west wills till throw stones and
people will still kill so let the man try and show him
some support for trying to get rid of corruption in
the muslim world..
maybe you should give yourself a time out i think
youre a bit emotional you are taking the issue to
extremes like a pregnant woman..
allah hafiz, jessica
--- Shakur Leday <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
---------------------------------
as salam alaikum,
I do not understand how mr. ramadan can make such a
tatement and for muslims to agree with his statement
is not good. one where in the quran and sunnah gives
hime the authority to such a ban. just because stupid
currupt governments are doing stupid things does not
change the fact the people are still murdering,
commiting adultrey etc, What mr. ramadan should have
only pointed out and spoke against such governments
and corrupt leadership, no matter what the west is
always going to find something to throw stones at
muslims and our beliefs. they will continue to do so
unless we convert to theri religion, yes it is a shame
that dark skinned people, women and the poor in these
types of countries but it doesn't make it right to ban
the hudud, if a poor person kills someone unjustly,
is it right? They still committed a crime and as for
as my understanding i have never read anything where
allah and his messenger says that if the hudud is not
carried out fairly then remove it or temporary ban it.
people with such corruption should be removed by all
means possible. To many times muslims either go to the
extreme one way or another, on one hand you have
muslims blaming america for all their problems and
want to kill everyone in america by any means and on
the other side you have muslims trying to appease
westerners and end up compromisng their religion and
come up with rulings like end the hudud or trying to
say that islam is like chrisitanity etc ya ya
ya.............
>From: jessica wrobleski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [history_islam] Tariq Ramadan Calls for
Hudud Freeze
>Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:40:21 -0700 (PDT)
>
>salaam alaikum, i completely agree with him also..
>wouldnt it be wise to fix the muslim world so that
the
>western world has no stones to throw? - jessica
>
>--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > I must say that I agree with him on the "FREEZE"
> > because there are no just
> > Islamic states. The Hudud should also be applied
to
> > the Governments that are
> > robbing people blind. It seems that it is applied
> > only with the poor. Robbing a
> > loaf of bread requires hand cutting? C'mon! the
> > Hudud should be on those who
> > robbed the country and people from justice that
had
> > lead a poor person to steal
> > a loaf of bread.
> > So, yes, I agree on the freeze until such time
that
> > a just Islamic State is
> > present and justice and Sharia is applied to all.
> >
>
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________
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>
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{Invite (mankind, O Muhammad ) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islam) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Qur'an) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided.}
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