ISP-CACHING Digest for Tuesday, August 08, 2000. 1. FW: Caching Products and Skycaching 2. RE: Caching Products and Skycaching 3. Re: Caching Products and Skycaching ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: FW: Caching Products and Skycaching From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dave Immethun) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:33:06 -0700 X-Message-Number: 1 Entera sponsored a RTSP interoperability event on July 24th and 25th at our Fremont office with several streaming server, proxy and client vendors participating including Real Networks, Microsoft, Apple, Cisco, Sun, University of Technology in Darmstadt, and Entera. The results were presented to the Multiparty Multimedia Session Control (mmusic) group at the 48th IETF last week and the presentation and proceedings will be online at the link below in the next few weeks. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/directory.html To answer the original question regarding stream caching capabilities, we just announced the commercial availability of TeraEDGE, Entera's new IP caching server software solution running on Solaris X86 and SPARC that caches and proxies HTTP, Real Networks, and RTSP/RTP protocols. We also have a Linux beta version of the TeraEDGE available today will all the same features. http://entera.com/news/pressreleases/080800_axient_te.html TeraEDGE is an integral piece of the infrastructure behind Octane offered by Axient that was announced yesterday. http://www.axient.com/news/story/story2.htm Dave Immethun Entera, Inc. 40971 Encyclopedia Circle Fremont, CA 94538 Direct: 510.770.5279 Fax: 508.629.0200 www.entera.com Shaping the future of content delivery. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Riegel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 6:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Caching Products and Skycaching I don't have anything off the shelf that shows stats on hit rate and frequently visited url for streaming.... I know that Entera was holding a "mini bakeoff" for streaming products a week or two ago...the results were to be posted at an IETF meeting last week, but I haven't been able to find them yet. The IETF meeting info is at http://www.ietf.org/meetings/IETF-48.html. There may be good info in those results...several vendors participated in the event, but until I see the results I don't know..... For all you Entera guys watching the list...I am sure that we would all be interested in seeing the info from that event. Thanks Chris Riegel Stratacache >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/06/00 21:22 PM >>> Hi Chris, Thanks for sharing your list. =) Do you have a program that can show statistics on hit rate and frequently visited url for streaming? I am looking for a utility that can do generate report for streaming products. Maxi Bernales "A razor may be sharper than an ax, but it cannot cut wood." On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Chris Riegel wrote: > The last list I had of caching/streaming products is as follows: > > NetApp > Infolibria > Inktomi (Real Proxy) > Cacheflow (Real Proxy) > Entera (Real Proxy) > Compaq (MS Media Streaming Server) > and of course Real Networks... > > If you go to StreamingMedia.com (the guys who sponsor the Streaming Media Shows) you can see several startup/alternate model streaming companies who were at the Streaming Media Show in NYC about 6 months ago....I spent 3 days there and saw several new ideas for streaming technologies... > > I also know that there are several new products coming for streaming of MS Media, so when searching for streaming, keep in mind that there are some products hat do Real exclusively and some that only do MS. > > Cheers > > Chris Riegel > Stratacache > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/04/00 21:43 PM >>> > > The 'Great OZ', CacheFlow, announced streaming caching functionality with > their July 2000 code release. Anyone using it already? > > > > "Tim Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 08/04/2000 08:22 PM EST > Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > cc: > Subject: Re: Caching Products and Skycaching > > > I don't think currently many of the caching products can cache streaming > media formats. Squid does not currently offer this that I have heard about. > I am not aware of any other than what Inktomi's box in partnership with > Real > Networks that can do it. Real Networks has a caching proxy software package > out in beta but nothing firm yet. These are the only 2 that I am aware of > currently. If there are others let me know. > > Tim Jung > System Admin > Internet Gateway Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 5:12 A > Subject: Re: Caching Products and Skycaching > > > > HI Matt, > > > > I agree with you. I based my comments here on my experience using squid > and > > cacheflow. > > > > Have you read www.swelltech.com? They are using squid and tweaked > > something and benchmarked it using polygraph. And the results are > > satisfactory! I wonder if it can support streaming video and real player > > and still perform well. > > > > > > > > At 10:36 AM 8/2/00 +0100, you wrote: > > >> How do you measure the hit rate? Based on the Java applet GUI? > > >> Personally I find the object hit rate is high, but byte hit rate is > less > > >so. > > > > > >> Cacheflow's statistics regarding hit rate are known to be quite > suspect. > > > > > >> I have my own sets of program to have the figures based on the CF > logs. > > > > > If you don't trust the statistics provided by the Java GUI, you will > > >probably want to analyse the log file data instead. Enable hit logging > in > > >squid compatible format, then use a publicly available tool such as > > >Calamaris to generate reports. You can automate the process by setting > > >Cacheflow devices to regularly post logs off the cache to an FTP > services > > >running on a remote Unix system. A few lines in Cron, set Calamaris to > place > > >the output files into the directory of a webserver, and you've got the > > >system up and running... > > > > > >http://cord.de/tools/squid/calamaris/ > > > > > >You should be able to compare the result to those provided by the > Cacheflow > > >interface. It is possible that the data reported by the interface > > >occasionally changes between software versions, as the dynamic refresh > > >algorithms, object deletion policies etc. will occasionally get tweaked. > > > > > >All this is a useful exercise in emancipation, but I imagine the best > place > > >to look for your bandwidth saving would really be the router interfaces, > > >sometime after deployment when the cache has had the opportunity to > fill. > > >Tools like MRTG make graphing this stuff trivial.... > > > > > >http://ee-staff.ethz.ch/~oetike/webtools/mrtg/mrtg.html > > > > > >In every Cacheflow deployment I've seen, we've managed a better hit-rate > > >than squid caches. How much better varies per customer, and the > > >manufacturer-generated statistics will always be open to some debate. > > >However, you should expect a commercial product to produce better > > >performance. > > > > > >- Matt > > > > > >Matthew Watkins > > >Technical Consultant > > >Knowware UK Ltd > > > > > >Mobile: 07968 755807 > > >Fax: 01223 301280 > > >Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >http://www.knowware.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > NEWS YOU CAN USE > > > Check Out http://www.siiconvalley.internet.com > > > For the Latest Internet News From Silicon Valley > > > > > >____________ . The ISP-CACHING Discussion List . ___________ > > >To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ > > > > > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > RADWARE, Inc.: The only company offering a complete local/ > > global IP load balancing solution for all Internet/intranet/ > > extranet environments. http://www.radware.com > > > > ____________ . The ISP-CACHING Discussion List . ___________ > > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > NEWS YOU CAN USE > Check Out http://www.siliconvalley.internet.com > For the Latest Internet News From Silicon Valley > > ____________ ? The ISP-CACHING Discussion List ? ___________ > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ > > > > > > ____________ * The ISP-CACHING Discussion List * ___________ > To Jon: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ > > > > > > ____________ ò The ISP-CACHING Discussion List ò ___________ > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NEWS YOU CAN USE Check Out http://www.siliconvalley.internet.com For the Latest Internt News From Silicon Valley ____________ ò The ISP-CACHING Discussion List ò ___________ To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NEWS YOU CAN USE Check Out http://www.siliconvalley.internet.com For the Latest Internet News From Silicon Valley ____________ * The ISP-CACHING Discussion List * ___________ To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Caching Products and Skycaching From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard DeSoto) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 18:22:55 -0700 X-Message-Number: 2 good email -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 5:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: Caching Products and Skycaching Entera sponsored a RTSP interoperability event on July 24th and 25th at our Fremont office with several streaming server, proxy and client vendors participating including Real Networks, Microsoft, Apple, Cisco, Sun, University of Technology in Darmstadt, and Entera. The results were presented to the Multiparty Multimedia Session Control (mmusic) group at the 48th IETF last week and the presentation and proceedings will be online at the link below in the next few weeks. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/directory.html To answer the original question regarding stream caching capabilities, we just announced the commercial availability of TeraEDGE, Entera's new IP caching server software solution running on Solaris X86 and SPARC that caches and proxies HTTP, Real Networks, and RTSP/RTP protocols. We also have a Linux beta version of the TeraEDGE available today will all the same features. http://entera.com/news/pressreleases/080800_axient_te.html TeraEDGE is an integral piece of the infrastructure behind Octane offered by Axient that was announced yesterday. http://www.axient.com/news/story/story2.htm Dave Immethun Entera, Inc. 40971 Encyclopedia Circle Fremont, CA 94538 Direct: 510.770.5279 Fax: 508.629.0200 www.entera.com Shaping the future of content delivery. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Riegel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 6:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Caching Products and Skycaching I don't have anything off the shelf that shows stats on hit rate and frequently visited url for streaming.... I know that Entera was holding a "mini bakeoff" for streaming products a week or two ago...the results were to be posted at an IETF meeting last week, but I haven't been able to find them yet. The IETF meeting info is at http://www.ietf.org/meetings/IETF-48.html. There may be good info in those results...several vendors participated in the event, but until I see the results I don't know..... For all you Entera guys watching the list...I am sure that we would all be interested in seeing the info from that event. Thanks Chris Riegel Stratacache >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/06/00 21:22 PM >>> Hi Chris, Thanks for sharing your list. =) Do you have a program that can show statistics on hit rate and frequently visited url for streaming? I am looking for a utility that can do generate report for streaming products. Maxi Bernales "A razor may be sharper than an ax, but it cannot cut wood." On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Chris Riegel wrote: > The last list I had of caching/streaming products is as follows: > > NetApp > Infolibria > Inktomi (Real Proxy) > Cacheflow (Real Proxy) > Entera (Real Proxy) > Compaq (MS Media Streaming Server) > and of course Real Networks... > > If you go to StreamingMedia.com (the guys who sponsor the Streaming Media Shows) you can see several startup/alternate model streaming companies who were at the Streaming Media Show in NYC about 6 months ago....I spent 3 days there and saw several new ideas for streaming technologies... > > I also know that there are several new products coming for streaming of MS Media, so when searching for streaming, keep in mind that there are some products hat do Real exclusively and some that only do MS. > > Cheers > > Chris Riegel > Stratacache > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/04/00 21:43 PM >>> > > The 'Great OZ', CacheFlow, announced streaming caching functionality with > their July 2000 code release. Anyone using it already? > > > > "Tim Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 08/04/2000 08:22 PM EST > Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > cc: > Subject: Re: Caching Products and Skycaching > > > I don't think currently many of the caching products can cache streaming > media formats. Squid does not currently offer this that I have heard about. > I am not aware of any other than what Inktomi's box in partnership with > Real > Networks that can do it. Real Networks has a caching proxy software package > out in beta but nothing firm yet. These are the only 2 that I am aware of > currently. If there are others let me know. > > Tim Jung > System Admin > Internet Gateway Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 5:12 A > Subject: Re: Caching Products and Skycaching > > > > HI Matt, > > > > I agree with you. I based my comments here on my experience using squid > and > > cacheflow. > > > > Have you read www.swelltech.com? They are using squid and tweaked > > something and benchmarked it using polygraph. And the results are > > satisfactory! I wonder if it can support streaming video and real player > > and still perform well. > > > > > > > > At 10:36 AM 8/2/00 +0100, you wrote: > > >> How do you measure the hit rate? Based on the Java applet GUI? > > >> Personally I find the object hit rate is high, but byte hit rate is > less > > >so. > > > > > >> Cacheflow's statistics regarding hit rate are known to be quite > suspect. > > > > > >> I have my own sets of program to have the figures based on the CF > logs. > > > > > If you don't trust the statistics provided by the Java GUI, you will > > >probably want to analyse the log file data instead. Enable hit logging > in > > >squid compatible format, then use a publicly available tool such as > > >Calamaris to generate reports. You can automate the process by setting > > >Cacheflow devices to regularly post logs off the cache to an FTP > services > > >running on a remote Unix system. A few lines in Cron, set Calamaris to > place > > >the output files into the directory of a webserver, and you've got the > > >system up and running... > > > > > >http://cord.de/tools/squid/calamaris/ > > > > > >You should be able to compare the result to those provided by the > Cacheflow > > >interface. It is possible that the data reported by the interface > > >occasionally changes between software versions, as the dynamic refresh > > >algorithms, object deletion policies etc. will occasionally get tweaked. > > > > > >All this is a useful exercise in emancipation, but I imagine the best > place > > >to look for your bandwidth saving would really be the router interfaces, > > >sometime after deployment when the cache has had the opportunity to > fill. > > >Tools like MRTG make graphing this stuff trivial.... > > > > > >http://ee-staff.ethz.ch/~oetike/webtools/mrtg/mrtg.html > > > > > >In every Cacheflow deployment I've seen, we've managed a better hit-rate > > >than squid caches. How much better varies per customer, and the > > >manufacturer-generated statistics will always be open to some debate. > > >However, you should expect a commercial product to produce better > > >performance. > > > > > >- Matt > > > > > >Matthew Watkins > > >Technical Consultant > > >Knowware UK Ltd > > > > > >Mobile: 07968 755807 > > >Fax: 01223 301280 > > >Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >http://www.knowware.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > NEWS YOU CAN USE > > > Check Out http://www.siiconvalley.internet.com > > > For the Latest Internet News From Silicon Valley > > > > > >____________ . The ISP-CACHING Discussion List . ___________ > > >To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ > > > > > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > RADWARE, Inc.: The only company offering a complete local/ > > global IP load balancing solution for all Internet/intranet/ > > extranet environments. http://www.radware.com > > > > ____________ . The ISP-CACHING Discussion List . ___________ > > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > NEWS YOU CAN USE > Check Out http://www.siliconvalley.internet.com > For the Latest Internet News From Silicon Valley > > ____________ ? The ISP-CACHING Discussion List ? ___________ > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ > > > > > > ____________ * The ISP-CACHING Discussion List * ___________ > To Jon: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ > > > > > > ____________ ò The ISP-CACHING Discussion List ò ___________ > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NEWS YOU CAN USE Check Out http://www.siliconvalley.internet.com For the Latest Internt News From Silicon Valley ____________ ò The ISP-CACHING Discussion List ò ___________ To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NEWS YOU CAN USE Check Out http://www.siliconvalley.internet.com For the Latest Internet News From Silicon Valley ____________ * The ISP-CACHING Discussion List * ___________ To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NEWS YOU CAN USE Check Out http://www.siliconvalley.internet.com For the Latest Internet News From Silicon Valley ____________ * The ISP-CACHING Discussion List * ___________ To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-caching/archives/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Caching Products and Skycaching From: Terence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 14:37:05 +1000 (EST) X-Message-Number: 3 > Some of the 'pre-boxed' appliances are quite good - the Cisco's have > some nice gear. However, you pay for a lot of overhead that may not be > needed. My recommendation is to purchase several squid boxes with some > high speed drives, locate them strategically around yr network and > you're bound to get a cost saving. Then again, caching alone won't get > you a 45% saving in bandwidth. You may receive 45% hitrate on the > proxy servers, but, murphys (is it murphys) law suggests that the more > bandwifth you give your customers, the more they will use; so, its > somewhat relative. The "benefit" is the more efficient use of your upstream bandwidth, and the bandwidth "multiplication" you get with serving hits from the cache. The hitrate doesn't translate to a saving on your upstream bills, in fact it's likely to increase if you're paying on usage. [It's great if you're paying on flat rate, you get to deliver more traffic to clients for the same cost.] On usage based prices, the hitrate can become a false ecomony if you don't bill accordingly, reducing your clients' usage of your upstream links can be easily achieved by getting them to deploy a good cache, in which case you don't loose revenue you just deliver less traffic with a higher usefulness, or higher QoS. Some ISP's are billing a different rate for cache access, and base this on their savings in running the cache. Again, this may not work if you don't price the cache access at a premium, and not pass on the full benefit of savings, making your cache unattractive in real terms. Of course, a reduced $/GB price for cache access is attractive, and easy to sell, but any client with some cents and sense will see that D.I.Y. will save MORE money and bandwidth. --- Terence C. 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isp-caching digest: August 08, 2000
ISP-CACHING Discussion List digest Tue, 08 Aug 2000 22:05:33 -0700
