ISP-DSL Digest for Thursday, August 10, 2000.
1. RE: spectrum compatibility
2. Re: DSL Bandwidth
3. Re: DSL Bandwidth
4. ATM Switch
5. Re: ATM Switch
6. RE: ATM Switch
7. RE: ATM Switch
8. RE: ATM Switch
9. RE: ATM Switch
10. Re: ATM Switch
11. Automated Computer Telemarketing
12. Thanks! (DSL Service in Seattle)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: spectrum compatibility
From: Rupert Baines <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:51:16 +0100
X-Message-Number: 1
Guys
Some simple stuff:
1 Crosstalk is a real issue & it is a real concern
2 Some line codes are better ("nicer") than others, some are nastier;
some are robust, some are sensitive. It is a complicated task to analyse
exactly what will interfere with what, and the standards bodies that define
new flavours spend a LOT Of time worrying about this. It is probably the
single biggest problem with designing new SDSL (aka SHDSL or G.s) & VDSL.
3 Traditional AMI TI is the nastiest, loudest signal. Roughly, if
this is in the same binder as ADSL, the DSL will be killed. You need to
separate things into different binders
4 However, for many years now operators have used HDSL (2B1Q at
384Kbaud) to deliver "a T1 line" or "DS1 service" (in Europe to deliver E1)
5 Yes, ILECs do use this as a tactic. BT are particularly shameful in
this. But that does not mean there is not a real concern - there is. As a
(european) CLEC I recognise the need for these policies. I could quibbble
on details, but in general the UK ANFP is a good idea & a good way to
create a level-playing field.
6 If you really want the detailed stuff, look for articles by Ken Ko
(paradyne), George Zimmerman (Pairgain) or John Cook (BT). (Apoologies to
anyone I forgot !!)
Rupert Baines
Director Product Development
Tel (UK): +44 (0)7968 481 831
Tel (Germany): +49 (0)173 514 1044
Fax: +44 (0)20 7532 7608
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vern Burke [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 08 August 2000 15:18
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: spectrum compatibility
>
> The telco's use HDSL because it is:
>
> A. capable of going further without being repeatered.
>
> B. capable of providing half speed over a single pair.
>
> Vern
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Hollis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 2:31 AM
> Subject: Re: spectrum compatibility
>
>
> > On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> > > In a nut shell it does occure. It can and will be a problem. It is
> less of
> > > a problem for sdsl (what we all want to use) then it is for adsl (what
> the
> > > telco's are putting in, hint, hint). The biggest surprize was found a
> > > couple of pages later: a t-1 will interfere with the sdsl signaling!
> So,
> > > don't put in any t-1's as they will kill your dsl!
> >
> > How interesting; classic T1 signaling is more spectrally disruptive than
> > SDSL? Could explain why telcos use HDSL to deploy T1 service.
> >
> > What are the recommendations on IDSL interference?
> >
> > -Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________ . The ISP-DSL Discussion List . ______________
> > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> >
>
>
>
>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DSL Bandwidth
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:17:06 -0700
X-Message-Number: 2
True. Ask your installation tech. Lots of t-1's have been transported over
dsl for a long time.
Also, I'll cc this to isp-dsl where it should be. Can we please move this
to the correct list?
Marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Farber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: DSL Bandwidth
T-1 is done over HDSL??? Whaa??? Did I miss something? Where do you get
this from? The same as ADSL? Whaaa???
Please clarify.
Paul Farber
Farber Technology
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ph 570-628-5303
Fax 570-628-5545
On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Mike Jandebeur wrote:
> > >>If you need quality, high speed data lines, don't jerk around with
DSL.
>
> T1 are done over HDSL. SAME technology as ADSL. DSL is only a layer 1
> transport method. service for the loop is what ever the telco wants to do.
> If you are a business d$l you WILL get better service. That cost $300 a
> month
>
> THEY are not loosing money. YOU JUST HAVE NOT FIGURED OUT HOW THEY MAKE
IT.
>
>
> > I agree, but if you can get away with it for a while think of the cost
> > savings.
>
> Bingo
>
> If it flopped though how long would it take to get a T1 in to
> > replace it?
>
> It either works or it doesn't. get the dsl first then deploy the cell. It
is
> only a tempary service. 1 year only. then get the new 11 meg radios and a
> big pipe and step up the throughput and leave dsl behind.
>
> >By that time would you have any customers left?
>
> WHERE WOULD THEY GO? This is for the 70% that can get nothing. If they
can
> get DSL you are NOT GOING TO GET MOST OF THEM. If you do you will loose
them
> after term. they WILL learn the broadband game just like they learned
> modems. the GEEK will tell all has friends what service to get and bam
your
> dead. The residential service at $40 a month can not compete when the
cell
> is only a 2meg system. Now when the 11meg radios are $99 next year we can.
>
> And my biggest
> > concern is that I do not beleive they would let you suck out 1.5mb
> > consistantly.
>
> Yes they will. Call and ask them about the business service level. They do
> not care! they put in a pipe and sell. if it slows so what is the mantra.
> If user complain then add a little more pipe. Is in a network cloud. they
> can add bandwidth easy.
>
> DSL is meant to burst up to high speed but not stay there
> > like a T1.
>
> wrong. the voltage in the circuit is always high , data or no.
>
> They would be losing money on that kind of bandwidth at that
> > price.
> >Matt
>
> AND WHO DO THEY PAY FOR BANDWIDTH? THEY HAUL IT TO THE NAP'S AND GIVE
IT
> TO AN ISP THAT JUST SITS BETWEEN THE NAP SWITCH AND THEIR SWITCH IN THE
SAME
> BUILDING.
>
> Stop thinking that the telco's are paying for bandwidth like us.
>
> Mike
> "Free your Mind"
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DSL Bandwidth
From: "Burke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:25:14 -0400
X-Message-Number: 3
> >
> > T1 are done over HDSL. SAME technology as ADSL. DSL is only a layer 1
> > transport method. service for the loop is what ever the telco wants to
do.
> > If you are a business d$l you WILL get better service. That cost $300 a
> > month
HDSL is NOT the same "technology" as ADSL. HDSL uses the same 2B1Q encoding
as such things as ISDN, while ADSL uses CAP (carrier amplitude phase) or DMT
(discrete multitione) encoding. HDSL can be repeatered, ADSL cannot. Not the
same
thing at all.
Vern
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: ATM Switch
From: David Klebanov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:11:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 4
Hi All!
We want to use our ATM connection to our phone company
to receive ADSL users from there and to direct the
data flow back to the phone company through the SAME
ATM line (different PVC's of course). In order to
deploy this we need ATM Switch which will connect our
local IP based network on one end of the switch with
AMT network of our phone company on the other.
We want to use Cisco Catalist. Can anyone suggest
what is the best model for this kind of connection? We
don't need anything fancy or expensive!
Thanks in advance.
=====
Klebanov David
Xpert Trusted Systems, IP Group
IP Integrator
Phone : +(972) 9 9522361
Mobile: +(972) 58 368234
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: ATM Switch
From: Jesse Gasteiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:15:24 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 5
You can use a Catalyst 2900-XL with one of the ATM-OC3 expansion modules.
You'll need to set up VLAN trunking to an external router (2620 minimum)=20
to be able to route between PVCs.
-----------------------------
Jesse Gasteiger
ViaNet Internet Solutions
http://www.vianet.on.ca
(705) 675-0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, David Klebanov wrote:
> Hi All!
>=20
> We want to use our ATM connection to our phone company
> to receive ADSL users from there and to direct the
> data flow back to the phone company through the SAME
> ATM line (different PVC's of course). In order to
> deploy this we need ATM Switch which will connect our
> local IP based network on one end of the switch with
> AMT network of our phone company on the other.=20
> We want to use Cisco Catalist. Can anyone suggest
> what is the best model for this kind of connection? We
> don't need anything fancy or expensive!
>=20
> Thanks in advance.
>=20
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Klebanov David
> Xpert Trusted Systems, IP Group
> IP Integrator
> Phone : +(972) 9 9522361
> Mobile: +(972) 58 368234
>=20
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ______________ =95 The ISP-DSL Discussion List =95 ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>=20
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: ATM Switch
From: "GiantWEB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:33:51 -0400
X-Message-Number: 6
do they make T1's or DS3 card for that switch?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Gasteiger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 12:15 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ATM Switch
You can use a Catalyst 2900-XL with one of the ATM-OC3 expansion modules.
You'll need to set up VLAN trunking to an external router (2620 minimum)
to be able to route between PVCs.
-----------------------------
Jesse Gasteiger
ViaNet Internet Solutions
http://www.vianet.on.ca
(705) 675-0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, David Klebanov wrote:
> Hi All!
>
> We want to use our ATM connection to our phone company
> to receive ADSL users from there and to direct the
> data flow back to the phone company through the SAME
> ATM line (different PVC's of course). In order to
> deploy this we need ATM Switch which will connect our
> local IP based network on one end of the switch with
> AMT network of our phone company on the other.
> We want to use Cisco Catalist. Can anyone suggest
> what is the best model for this kind of connection? We
> don't need anything fancy or expensive!
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> =====
> Klebanov David
> Xpert Trusted Systems, IP Group
> IP Integrator
> Phone : +(972) 9 9522361
> Mobile: +(972) 58 368234
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: ATM Switch
From: Jesse Gasteiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:55:10 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 7
On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, GiantWEB wrote:
> do they make T1's or DS3 card for that switch?
>=20
No, just OC3 as far as I know.
-----------------------------
Jesse Gasteiger
ViaNet Internet Solutions
http://www.vianet.on.ca
(705) 675-0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jesse Gasteiger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 12:15 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: ATM Switch
>=20
>=20
>=20
> You can use a Catalyst 2900-XL with one of the ATM-OC3 expansion modules.
> You'll need to set up VLAN trunking to an external router (2620 minimum)
> to be able to route between PVCs.
>=20
>=20
> -----------------------------
> Jesse Gasteiger
> ViaNet Internet Solutions
> http://www.vianet.on.ca
> (705) 675-0400
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>=20
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, David Klebanov wrote:
>=20
> > Hi All!
> >
> > We want to use our ATM connection to our phone company
> > to receive ADSL users from there and to direct the
> > data flow back to the phone company through the SAME
> > ATM line (different PVC's of course). In order to
> > deploy this we need ATM Switch which will connect our
> > local IP based network on one end of the switch with
> > AMT network of our phone company on the other.
> > We want to use Cisco Catalist. Can anyone suggest
> > what is the best model for this kind of connection? We
> > don't need anything fancy or expensive!
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Klebanov David
> > Xpert Trusted Systems, IP Group
> > IP Integrator
> > Phone : +(972) 9 9522361
> > Mobile: +(972) 58 368234
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________ =95 The ISP-DSL Discussion List =95 ______________
> > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ______________ =95 The ISP-DSL Discussion List =95 ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>=20
>=20
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services=20
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>=20
> ______________ =95 The ISP-DSL Discussion List =95 ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>=20
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: ATM Switch
From: "Bryan Bain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:12:13 -0700
X-Message-Number: 8
You may want to consider an Issanni 1000 or Redback SMS 500. Either is a
superior solution.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Gasteiger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 9:55 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: ATM Switch
On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, GiantWEB wrote:
> do they make T1's or DS3 card for that switch?
>
No, just OC3 as far as I know.
-----------------------------
Jesse Gasteiger
ViaNet Internet Solutions
http://www.vianet.on.ca
(705) 675-0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jesse Gasteiger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 12:15 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: ATM Switch
>
>
>
> You can use a Catalyst 2900-XL with one of the ATM-OC3 expansion modules.
> You'll need to set up VLAN trunking to an external router (2620 minimum)
> to be able to route between PVCs.
>
>
> -----------------------------
> Jesse Gasteiger
> ViaNet Internet Solutions
> http://www.vianet.on.ca
> (705) 675-0400
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, David Klebanov wrote:
>
> > Hi All!
> >
> > We want to use our ATM connection to our phone company
> > to receive ADSL users from there and to direct the
> > data flow back to the phone company through the SAME
> > ATM line (different PVC's of course). In order to
> > deploy this we need ATM Switch which will connect our
> > local IP based network on one end of the switch with
> > AMT network of our phone company on the other.
> > We want to use Cisco Catalist. Can anyone suggest
> > what is the best model for this kind of connection? We
> > don't need anything fancy or expensive!
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Klebanov David
> > Xpert Trusted Systems, IP Group
> > IP Integrator
> > Phone : +(972) 9 9522361
> > Mobile: +(972) 58 368234
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
> > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
> >
>
>
>
>
> ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>
>
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
> ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
RADWARE, Inc.: The only company offering a complete local/
global IP load balancing solution for all Internet/intranet/
extranet environments. http://www.radware.com
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: ATM Switch
From: "Burrows, Zack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:17:26 -0400
X-Message-Number: 9
Have you looked at the Alcatel (Xylan) OmniSwitch?
They have 4 port T1 ATM (an IMA on the 8port T1 card), and also offer
DS3/OC3/OC12.
should do everything you need.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Klebanov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 12:12 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: ATM Switch
Hi All!
We want to use our ATM connection to our phone company
to receive ADSL users from there and to direct the
data flow back to the phone company through the SAME
ATM line (different PVC's of course). In order to
deploy this we need ATM Switch which will connect our
local IP based network on one end of the switch with
AMT network of our phone company on the other.
We want to use Cisco Catalist. Can anyone suggest
what is the best model for this kind of connection? We
don't need anything fancy or expensive!
Thanks in advance.
=====
Klebanov David
Xpert Trusted Systems, IP Group
IP Integrator
Phone : +(972) 9 9522361
Mobile: +(972) 58 368234
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
______________ * The ISP-DSL Discussion List * ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: ATM Switch
From: Alex Rubenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:35:43 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
X-Message-Number: 10
We do this today with a 8510 MSR.
On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, David Klebanov wrote:
> Hi All!
>
> We want to use our ATM connection to our phone company
> to receive ADSL users from there and to direct the
> data flow back to the phone company through the SAME
> ATM line (different PVC's of course). In order to
> deploy this we need ATM Switch which will connect our
> local IP based network on one end of the switch with
> AMT network of our phone company on the other.
> We want to use Cisco Catalist. Can anyone suggest
> what is the best model for this kind of connection? We
> don't need anything fancy or expensive!
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> =====
> Klebanov David
> Xpert Trusted Systems, IP Group
> IP Integrator
> Phone : +(972) 9 9522361
> Mobile: +(972) 58 368234
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Automated Computer Telemarketing
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 18:25:11 EDT
X-Message-Number: 11
Hi Guys
Can anyone advise me of where i could find a system for telemarketing where
the computer does all the calling and asks and answers all the questions of
the customers thank you .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Thanks! (DSL Service in Seattle)
From: "Bryan K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 21:30:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 12
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone! We found a good provider to use.
Its nice to be back to the list :)
Bryan
---
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