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https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ARROW-5190?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel
]
James Lamb updated ARROW-5190:
------------------------------
Description:
Hello,
I would like to have a discussion on the use of *tibble* in the Apache Arrow R
package. I looked at the [the project contributor
guidelines|[https://github.com/apache/arrow/blob/master/docs/source/developers/contributing.rst]]
and could not tell where the best place might be to start a public discussion
on this topic, so I decided on JIRA. I apologize if this is not the right place.
*TL;DR*
I would like to propose moving the *tibble* dependency in the *arrow* R package
to "Suggests", removing the _as_tibble()_ in _read_arrow()_, and having the
core R code implementing the Arrow API only return data.frames or other base-R
data structures wherever possible.
*Reasoning*
[As far as I can
tell|[https://github.com/apache/arrow/search?p=1&q=tibble&unscoped_q=tibble]],
outside of tests and examples *tibble* is only used in three places in the
package:
* S3 methods to convert Arrow objects to tibbles
(_as_tibble.arrow__::__RecordBatch()_, _as.tibble.arrow::Table()_)
* optional "convert to tibble on the way out" behavior controlled by a flag in
interfaces to file types (parquet and feather)
*
[_read_arrow()_|[https://github.com/apache/arrow/blob/0536ef8174982a7a13a251174cc38701e8663b68/r/R/read_table.R#L88]]
In my opinion, all three of these uses of *tibble* are valuable for developers
who use that package (or other packages in its ecosystem), but I am not
convinced that the Arrow R package should be tightly coupled to them.
In the Python community, *pandas* is a broadly agreed-upon standard for
representing data frames. Even with that ubiquity, *pyarrow* does not depend on
*pandas* (it is not necessary to work with it) and all "compatibility with
*pandas*" code is isolated in a place explicitly intended for that purpose:
[https://github.com/apache/arrow/blob/master/python/pyarrow/pandas_compat.py]
I think that is the ideal handling for integration of Arrow extensions with
other software it might be used with. This allows users who care about only one
of the integrations (e.g. feather, parquet, HDFS, Apache Spark, tibble,
data.table, etc.) to only have to build things they're already using.
*Other background information*
I took the time to write this tonight after talking a colleague through the
issues *feather* (R package) users experienced after the *tibble 2.0* release.
See for example [wesm/feather#374|[https://github.com/wesm/feather/issues/374]]
and
[wesm/feather#372|[https://github.com/wesm/feather/issues/37|https://github.com/wesm/feather/issues/374]2].
When *tibble 2.0* came out it broke *feather 0.3.1* and the maintainers there
promptly released to CRAN a *feather 0.3.2* which was compatible with *tibble
2.0+*. Unfortunately, this still caused disruptions for many people using
*feather* (who inadvertently had *tibble* upgraded as part of installing other
packages which depended on it). Nothing about *tibble* was necessary to the
implementation of _read_feather()_, as far as I can tell, but this design
choice made installing and upgrading *tibble* non-optional for developers who
just wanted to use the feather file format and all it's awesome features.
If the proposal here is accepted, I hope it will mean we can prevent repeating
the same experience with the R *arrow* package and set a strong precedent for
developers who want to add compatibility in this package for other members of
the ecosystem like parquet or Apache Spark.
Thank you for hearing me out!
was:
Hello,
I would like to have a discussion on the use of *tibble* in the Apache Arrow R
package. I looked at the [the project contributor
guidelines|[https://github.com/apache/arrow/blob/master/docs/source/developers/contributing.rst]]
and could not tell where the best place might be to start a public discussion
on this topic, so I decided on JIRA. I apologize if this is not the right place.
*TL;DR*
I would like to propose moving the *tibble* dependency in the *arrow* R package
to "Suggests", removing the _as_tibble()_ in _read_arrow()_, and having the
core R code implementing the Arrow API only return data.frames or other base-R
data structures wherever possible.
*Reasoning*
[As far as I can
tell|[https://github.com/apache/arrow/search?p=1&q=tibble&unscoped_q=tibble]],
outside of tests and examples *tibble* is only used in three places in the
package:
* S3 methods to convert Arrow objects to tibbles
(_as_tibble.arrow__::__RecordBatch()_, _as.tibble.arrow::Table()_)
* optional "convert to tibble on the way out" behavior controlled by a flag in
interfaces to file types (parquet and feather)
*
[_read_arrow()_|[https://github.com/apache/arrow/blob/0536ef8174982a7a13a251174cc38701e8663b68/r/R/read_table.R#L88]]
In my opinion, all three of these uses of *tibble* are valuable for developers
who use that package (or other packages in its ecosystem), but I am not
convinced that the Arrow R package should be tightly coupled to them or that
Arrow maintainers should have to maintain them.
In the Python community, *pandas* is a broadly agreed-upon standard for
representing data frames. Even with that ubiquity, *pyarrow* does not depend on
*pandas* (it is not necessary to work with it) and all "compatibility with
*pandas*" code is isolated in a place explicitly intended for that purpose:
[https://github.com/apache/arrow/blob/master/python/pyarrow/pandas_compat.py]
I think that is the ideal handling for integration of Arrow extensions with
other software it might be used with. This allows users who care about only one
of the integrations (e.g. feather, parquet, HDFS, Apache Spark, tibble,
data.table, etc.) to only have to build things they're already using.
*Other background information*
I took the time to write this tonight after talking a colleague through the
issues *feather* (R package) users experienced after the *tibble 2.0* release.
See for example [wesm/feather#374|[https://github.com/wesm/feather/issues/374]]
and
[wesm/feather#372|[https://github.com/wesm/feather/issues/37|https://github.com/wesm/feather/issues/374]2].
When *tibble 2.0* came out it broke *feather 0.3.1* and the maintainers there
promptly released to CRAN a *feather 0.3.2* which was compatible with *tibble
2.0+*. Unfortunately, this still caused disruptions for many people using
*feather* (who inadvertently had *tibble* upgraded as part of installing other
packages which depended on it). Nothing about *tibble* was necessary to the
implementation of _read_feather()_, as far as I can tell, but this design
choice made installing and upgrading *tibble* non-optional for developers who
just wanted to use the feather file format and all it's awesome features.
If the proposal here is accepted, I hope it will mean we can prevent repeating
the same experience with the R *arrow* package and set a strong precedent for
developers who want to add compatibility in this package for other members of
the ecosystem like parquet or Apache Spark.
Thank you for hearing me out!
> [R] Discussion: tibble dependency in R package
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> Key: ARROW-5190
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ARROW-5190
> Project: Apache Arrow
> Issue Type: Wish
> Components: R
> Reporter: James Lamb
> Priority: Minor
>
> Hello,
>
> I would like to have a discussion on the use of *tibble* in the Apache Arrow
> R package. I looked at the [the project contributor
> guidelines|[https://github.com/apache/arrow/blob/master/docs/source/developers/contributing.rst]]
> and could not tell where the best place might be to start a public
> discussion on this topic, so I decided on JIRA. I apologize if this is not
> the right place.
>
> *TL;DR*
> I would like to propose moving the *tibble* dependency in the *arrow* R
> package to "Suggests", removing the _as_tibble()_ in _read_arrow()_, and
> having the core R code implementing the Arrow API only return data.frames or
> other base-R data structures wherever possible.
>
> *Reasoning*
> [As far as I can
> tell|[https://github.com/apache/arrow/search?p=1&q=tibble&unscoped_q=tibble]],
> outside of tests and examples *tibble* is only used in three places in the
> package:
> * S3 methods to convert Arrow objects to tibbles
> (_as_tibble.arrow__::__RecordBatch()_, _as.tibble.arrow::Table()_)
> * optional "convert to tibble on the way out" behavior controlled by a flag
> in interfaces to file types (parquet and feather)
> *
> [_read_arrow()_|[https://github.com/apache/arrow/blob/0536ef8174982a7a13a251174cc38701e8663b68/r/R/read_table.R#L88]]
>
> In my opinion, all three of these uses of *tibble* are valuable for
> developers who use that package (or other packages in its ecosystem), but I
> am not convinced that the Arrow R package should be tightly coupled to them.
> In the Python community, *pandas* is a broadly agreed-upon standard for
> representing data frames. Even with that ubiquity, *pyarrow* does not depend
> on *pandas* (it is not necessary to work with it) and all "compatibility with
> *pandas*" code is isolated in a place explicitly intended for that purpose:
> [https://github.com/apache/arrow/blob/master/python/pyarrow/pandas_compat.py]
> I think that is the ideal handling for integration of Arrow extensions with
> other software it might be used with. This allows users who care about only
> one of the integrations (e.g. feather, parquet, HDFS, Apache Spark, tibble,
> data.table, etc.) to only have to build things they're already using.
>
> *Other background information*
> I took the time to write this tonight after talking a colleague through the
> issues *feather* (R package) users experienced after the *tibble 2.0*
> release. See for example
> [wesm/feather#374|[https://github.com/wesm/feather/issues/374]] and
> [wesm/feather#372|[https://github.com/wesm/feather/issues/37|https://github.com/wesm/feather/issues/374]2].
> When *tibble 2.0* came out it broke *feather 0.3.1* and the maintainers
> there promptly released to CRAN a *feather 0.3.2* which was compatible with
> *tibble 2.0+*. Unfortunately, this still caused disruptions for many people
> using *feather* (who inadvertently had *tibble* upgraded as part of
> installing other packages which depended on it). Nothing about *tibble* was
> necessary to the implementation of _read_feather()_, as far as I can tell,
> but this design choice made installing and upgrading *tibble* non-optional
> for developers who just wanted to use the feather file format and all it's
> awesome features.
>
> If the proposal here is accepted, I hope it will mean we can prevent
> repeating the same experience with the R *arrow* package and set a strong
> precedent for developers who want to add compatibility in this package for
> other members of the ecosystem like parquet or Apache Spark.
>
>
> Thank you for hearing me out!
>
>
>
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