Noel,
On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 04:04:25PM -0400, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> This isn't really James specific, and you should probably raise your
> questions on NANAE (http://www.nanae.org/).
Your comments are sufficiently interesting to pique my interest.
Thanks.
> Judging from past experience lurking on NANAE, anyone who claims to
> "host 'opt-in' newsletters for several organizations" is going to
I also host an opt-in newsletter for an organization, and I'm
considering doing so for several other organizations.
> Basically, no one will believe you, and you'll be challenged to
> prove the opt-in nature of your lists.
To be specific, I'm on the board of a small local art non-profit
(www.suncrumbs.org - and don't blame me for the flash-heavy site, I
wasn't involved in that design process; at least they made sure to
keep a text-only version).
How do I know the list is opt-in and non-spam? Because I handle
the announcement list sign-up sheet at the performances and art
openings. I add the addresses to the mailman server we use to manage
the list. I vet, and often proofread and copyedit for clarity, the
messages before they get sent out.
I'm here, btw, because I've been thinking about the inadequacies
of using a mailing list manager like Mailman for this purpose. As
nice as Mailman is in other ways, it's not appropriate for what I'm
doing. I've been meaning to learn Python, but I don't think tackling
customizing mailman is a good way to start :-). Since I'm fairly
handy with java...
> Sending SPAM because someone else is dishonest isn't a defense;
This is one of my greatest concerns.
I've been talking with folks at other non-profits and hearing
about a lot of need for the kind of thing I'm planning to write
(basically something that's geared more towards scheduled mailings,
maintaining the information necessary to generate the mailings, and
automated gathering of feedback and responses to mailings). So much
so that I'm seriously thinking of doing it myself as a side business
venture (wouldn't let me retire, but it might make my hosting pay for
itself). Designing a system that *can't* be abused for spamming (or
at least resists being twisted to such ends) is a high priority.
One idea I've been giving serious thought to is approaching
somebody like the ACLU/EFF to ask for help in writing an acceptable
use policy (and, while they're at it, a privacy policy for list
subscriber info). Maybe I should look into whether NANAE already has
such a beast...
Despite that, I have much the same concerns as Chris; I don't
want to ask my (potential) users to move their site hosting over to my
box, but I know I'm going to have to handle sending mail from my box
as if it were coming from the user's site domain.
The best solution I can think of is to set up a subdomain of the
user's site domain (e.g. mail.foo.com, or possibly even
announcements.foo.com) pointing to my server. I suspect that I will
run into problems convincing ISP netadmins to register the subdomain
without trying to charge some sort of exorbitant fee (anybody remember
the good old days when getting webhosting with a domain name bumped
you up into the "gold" level and added $100 to the price? :-( ) but
it's better than nothing.
> Many hosts use a mail server in a different domain. It is common
> for co-located servers to use a mail server provided by the server
> farm, virtual hosts to use a common mail server, and individuals to
> use a mail server provided by their ISP.
I personally think this is a broken response to a broken
situation. Better than nothing, but... I'd rather focus on fixing the
cause than the symptom. That's the reason I originally started
thinking about these topics in general; the mailing list idea came later.
I started trying to think about how to solve usenet spam (in
1996). I was, alas, woefully underinformed and underskilled for the
task then (and not much better now). The thought I had, which I'd
still like to pursue, is something on the order of cancelmoose, only
turned inside out (i.e. approving messages). Various efforts along
these lines have since been tried. I'm not aware of any with a great
degree of success. One nuance I wanted to add was letting *anybody*
issue an "opinion" on a given message, and having powerful tools to
multiplex together opinions, to avoid a centralized gatekeeper.
> The most common mechanism for blocking e-mail is based upon the originating
> IP address. Once mail server sends out SPAM, you'll be added to the
> blackhole lists, mail servers will lookup your IP address using a DNS
> lookup, your e-mails will be rejected (and lart'ed), and you'll be posting
> on NANAE to protest your innocence.
This is a better response, IMHO. Though there are problems, it's
fundamentally the right approach - create mechanisms to empower
people, much like an automated boycott. In this case, the people it
empowers are those who are running the SMTP servers, who decide to
subscribe to the various relay blocking lists. This was at its most
"ideal" when it was solely about blocking open (hijackable) relays,
but more powerful as it grew into a more general mechanism (forcing
service providers to clean house). However, I'd like to see this
approach become less centralized and less susceptible to politics.
Either net-clique politics (not that I am accusing anyone of such) or
real-world politics - the smaller the group, the easier it is for them
to be targeted by lawsuits or dysfunctional regulatory efforts.
> > I am still trying to grasp the complexities of Internet email.
>
> And you're running "opt-in" mailing lists for other people? Man, are you in
> for a rough ride! I really urge you to get into NANAE, and save yourself a
> world of trouble.
...and on the technical side, I can't highly enough recommend
David Woods' _Programming Internet Email_, published by O'Reilly.
You might also want to check out some of Lawrence Lessig's
writing.
Steven J. Owens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"I'm going to make broad, sweeping generalizations and strong,
declarative statements, because otherwise I'll be here all night and
this document will be four times longer and much less fun to read.
Take it all with a grain of salt." - Me
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
