Yes true. We have hopes to do level of detail and dynamically adjust the
smoothness of the animation as the number of animated characters increase.
Already our own "shapes" have built in progressive meshing in that for any
shape we can ask for it to adjust to N percent of its total complexity.
Since the progressive mesh collapse order is pre-calculated and the vertices
re-ordered to match, it is extremely fast. In my experience everquest can't
handle more than about 40 characters at one time with exceptable frame
rates, and you have to turn off particles. But what we are thinking is that
the limiting factor of many characters being near each other will be comm
lag from the server rather than graphics.
Dave
> ----------
> From: John Wright[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Reply To: Discussion list for Java 3D API
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:42 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] How to REALLY get humanoid content into a Java
> 3Dapplication?
>
> Dave,
>
> Sure, for a single 500 vertex model it isn't a concern (with decent
> hardware). My concerns are if those models shift up to say 1000 vertices
> (better quality) and you put 100 or 200 of them in a scene! (not to say
> that we won't have problems with our method either). Quake, Halflife,
> etc all use low polygon count models and rarely have more than a few
> models in the scene at a time. It sure would be nice if Verant would
> comment on how they do this with Everquest.
>
> I agree, at this point there isn't much choice than to just make an
> educated guess and try it out.
>
> - John
>
> "Yazel, David J." wrote:
> >
> > Its too early to tell on speed, but since the vertex delta's are
> > pre-computed on a per key-frame bases, the only calculation is the
> > interpolation per frame for each vertex. On a 400-500 vertex model this
> > time is negligible. This is the same method used by quake and halflife
> to
> > great effect. We are in fact experimenting with half-life models
> converted
> > using 3d Exploration. As always we are just plodding along trying
> different
> > things. Our thought is also to attempt to "attach" items to the model
> using
> > control vertices, where for example you can specify two of the hand
> vertices
> > as anchors for items that are held, then use a single transformation on
> the
> > item to synchroize with the animated char. That way we can have smooth
> > animations of flexible characters, with rigid objects attached. But like
> > John said, we will have to see if its fast enough.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: John Wright[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Reply To: Discussion list for Java 3D API
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:34 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] How to REALLY get humanoid content into a
> Java
> > > 3Dapplication?
> > >
> > > As David said, it's not exactly a simple task. Our 3DS loader
> certainly
> > > can import excellent looking models (there are some quirks and my 3D
> > > modelers are getting better and better at making models that work) but
> > > animating them is possible in a couple different ways.
> > >
> > > To animate in real time you are going to have to sacrifice some
> quality
> > > until the hardware gets a LOT faster. Moving a few joints (what we
> > > intend to do) shouldn't be too bad but won't do the nice deformations
> of
> > > a "Hollywood" style animation (keep in mind that we can't do in real
> > > time what takes Max hours to generate a couple minute clip). I'm
> > > intrigued that David states they are going with morphing (my intuition
> > > tells me that is going to be too slow / CPU intensive).
> > >
> > > - John Wright
> > > Starfire Research
> > >
> > > David wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There are a few people here with real-world experience, and they are
> > > > probably all different experiences :) www.roboforge.com is an
> > > application
> > > > using Java3d and has quite nice animation. You can bring a
> non-animated
> > > > humanoid into Java3d very easily using Starfire Lab's 3ds loader. I
> > > would
> > > > stay away from VRML in java3d as a primary loader unless you plan on
> > > writing
> > > > your own loader. Java3d does not have complex humanoid animation
> built
> > > in.
> > > > Even if you want to do something as simple as single skin keyframe
> > > morphing
> > > > you have a job ahead of you. We have just started work on this
> > > ourselves.
> > > > The path we are starting to experiment with is to model in 3dmax,
> use
> > > > character studio to define the animation, use 3d exploration to read
> in
> > > the
> > > > model and animations and then use the 3d exploration sdk to write
> out
> > > our
> > > > own file format. Inside of java3d we would be using a loader which
> can
> > > > read our own file format and then creating animation classes which
> morph
> > > > between keyframes using geometry by reference and the geometry
> updator
> > > > callbacks. If you want to do skin and bones directly inside java3d
> then
> > > it
> > > > is more difficult because you need to handle the transformations
> > > yourself.
> > > > I think it would be slow to set up an animation using a hierarchy of
> > > > transform3d's but you could try.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck. I know there are people on this list who have this
> working,
> > > but
> > > > no one can/will post their code on it, so you will have to figure it
> out
> > > > unfortunately.
> > > >
> > > > Dave Yazel
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Rudolf J.C. Buijs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 6:24 AM
> > > > Subject: [JAVA3D] How to REALLY get humanoid content into a Java 3D
> > > > application?
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone -
> > > >
> > > > We are considering Java 3D for development of a new application
> which
> > > > involves animation of humanoids with motion capture data.
> > > >
> > > > This is a must-have: the humanoids MUST look good and realistic!
> > > >
> > > > I would think that it would be best to use a 3rd party tool to
> define
> > > > texture-mapped geometry, export this to VRML (or .3DS etc) and use
> any
> > > of
> > > > the loaders.
> > > >
> > > > What's a good way of going about this? I am thinking of content
> creation
> > > > packages like Poser or 3D Studio Max and exporting to VRML, but I
> don't
> > > know
> > > > for a fact that it will work.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone have REAL-WORLD experience with this? What software are
> you
> > > > using that will actually allow creation of humanoids and import them
> > > into a
> > > > Java 3D application? Preferably in the H-ANIM 1.1 standard if that's
> > > > possible. Which loaders to use for Java 3D? Any gotcha's?
> > > >
> > > > This is what I have so far: I've searched the web for loaders (found
> and
> > > > tried latest X3D) and VRML models (H-ANIM 1.1 preferably), but so
> far I
> > > have
> > > > been unsuccessful in importing even one humanoid (every single VRML
> > > model I
> > > > managed to find runs into problems with PROTO's, I have some models
> > > > available if anyone else cares to try, the demo VRML runs fine on my
> > > > system).
> > > >
> > > > Many thanks in advance and many regards - Rudolf
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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