Re: [JAVA3D] Graphics card

[Robert Bergman]

I don't have a Radeon 8500, but I do have a Radeon 64MB DDR VIVO in my PC (and a GF3 in my Mac).  I just logged in to my ISP to start shopping for a new PC card though, when I saw this mail.  IMO, it's unlikely that I'll buy an ATI card again for quite some time, regardless of the price differential over nVidia.   Here's why:   1) I've almost never had a bad experience with an nVidia card, and the drivers have always been either rock solid or quickly patched.   2) My current Radeon seems to have lots of subtle but ugly rendering artifacts regardless of the version of the driver I use.  I've read more than once that people seem to think ATI sacrifices some rendering quality for speed so they can compete with nVidia, and I can't disagree from what I've seen.   3) I've tried both the latest stable drivers and the latest beta drivers (both unified) and found that in both cases they cause the drawing surface on my monitor to shake around occasionally, which is REALLY hard on the eyes.  This doesn't occur with the Mac on the same monitor through the same KVM, and didn't occur when I had a TNT2 in the same PC.   4) A recent terrain tiling demo I did with Java3D, tested with each of JDK1.4b3/rc/fcs + j3db1 on the following cards: TNT2, GF2Ultra, ATI Mobility, and the ATI Radeon, showed a consistent yet momentary cracking anomaly between terrain tiles on the ATI cards, but no such effects on the nVidia cards.  It's quite possible that something's wrong with my code, but it's also quite suspicious that only the ATI cards have this issue.   I was originally sold on the ATI after comparing prices and features and reading a review on Tom's Hardware suggesting that the Radeon was a more innovative design than the nVidia cards of the day.  However, I now wish I had just spent the extra $50 and gotten the nVidia card.   Who knows -- the new Radeon series might be much better.  But so far, I'm not impressed with ATI when compared to nVidia.  Today I'm shopping for a GF3 and investigating the new GF4 line (last I saw the MX series for the GF4 was out, but I don't know if the non-MX series is out yet -- note, BTW, that Tom's Hardware recomends the GF3 over the GF4MX series if the prices become comparable).   My $0.03,   Bob   ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] Graphics card Good things about ATI cards are good features that games are not supported yet and will not be supported in a near future.  Facts are:   1.  Not quite compatible with Intel and AMD platform.  Many of you may heard or think that ATI is compatible to Intel platform, it has problems with AMD platform only.  I cannot say that you are wrong but at least my friend experienced that ATI with Intel CPU and chipset are not compatible, always crashes even having updated drivers.   2.  Prices are almost the same level as GeForce III but I heard that ATI is cheaper.  I guranteer that GeForce III would not give you any trouble but I am not sure about the ATI.  So why bother to buy a card just little cheaper but it has unknown issues(no matter good or bad).  It is not worth it to take the risk unless....it's refundable so u can give it a try.   3.  Qualities in ATI cards are all better than GeForce III or lower series.  However, for the performance and stabilities, GeForce III are definitely much better than ATI in scale.  Unless you are doing editing or some quality intensive work, otherwise, I won't recommend ATI.   4.  ATI OpenGL performance is better now but it is still not good enough.  If you say to yourself that you never touch OpenGL stuff like games or Java3D OpenGL, then go for ATI may be good for you.   5.  Drivers are not fixed as fast as nVidia.  But ATI is improving, this is appreciated.   6.  If you want something ultra performance, go for ATI 8500 or GFIII Ti500.  Otherwise, go for GFIII Ti200 or just GFIII.   These are all my own opinion.     Andy Leung General Manager, Sales Manager www.cometcomputer.com   ----- Original Message ----- From: Yazel, David J. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 11:30 AM Subject: [JAVA3D] Graphics card 64MB ATI Radeon 8500 or Geforce III?   I have heard good things about the ATI... does anyone on the list here use it?   Thanks,   Dave