While that is true, Ford isn't happy about the situation. They would *love* to be making the several thousand dollars per car profit that Toyota makes.
- J On Sep 2, 2008, at 1:38 PM, Alexey Zinger wrote: > > Keep in mind that direct margin per item is not always the top of > the business plan. I recall reading a few years ago about Ford > making a profit of about $50 on average on the cars they sell. Most > of the money they made as a business came from financing. > > Alexey > 2001 Honda CBR600F4i (CCS) > 1992 Kawasaki EX500 > http://azinger.blogspot.com > http://bsheet.sourceforge.net > http://wcollage.sourceforge.net > > > > --- On Tue, 9/2/08, Joshua Marinacci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> From: Joshua Marinacci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs PC - $1075 premium for a >> comparable Mac >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 3:35 PM >> No. The question is why do HP and Dell only make low margin >> (often >> crappy) computers, and struggle to turn a profit, when >> Apple is able >> to make 20->30% margins on products that are >> functionally equivalent >> (desktop and laptop PCs that do the same basic things from >> a consumer >> perspective). This is a very interesting economics >> question that, I >> think, reveals a great deal about how computers are >> manufactured and >> sold, and suggests new opportunities for the existing >> hardware makers >> (or opportunities for new upstarts). Or it could reveal >> barriers to >> fixing the problem, such as certain features of the MS >> Windows >> monopoly that discourage creating Mac like computers. >> >> I find it an interesting topic. :) >> >> - Josh >> >> On Sep 2, 2008, at 12:28 PM, Alexey Zinger wrote: >> >>> >>> But what is the question that answer is for? Is it >> that there >>> aren't enough easy ways to get a high-end laptop? >> Or that there >>> aren't enough choices in the high-end laptop >> market? >>> >>> Alexey >>> 2001 Honda CBR600F4i (CCS) >>> 1992 Kawasaki EX500 >>> http://azinger.blogspot.com >>> http://bsheet.sourceforge.net >>> http://wcollage.sourceforge.net >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 9/2/08, Joshua Marinacci >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Joshua Marinacci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> Subject: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs PC - $1075 >> premium for a >>>> comparable Mac >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 2:59 PM >>>> So then it seems the answer is to turn computers >> into a more >>>> consumer >>>> friendly buying market. ie: reduce the number of >> available >>>> models, >>>> give them better names, maximize compatibility >> with the >>>> most common >>>> hardware/software/network-infrastructure/devices, >> then >>>> focus on >>>> advertising a few core features that are >> differentiators. >>>> This makes >>>> the choice an easier one for consumers by >> effectively >>>> making the >>>> computer a simpler choice (at least in terms of >> buying >>>> one). >>>> >>>> Clearly Apple has done this, so the question is >> why >>>> hasn't anyone >>>> else. It doesn't seem like it would be that >> difficult. >>>> >>>> - J >>>> >>>> On Sep 2, 2008, at 11:40 AM, Alexey Zinger wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Coke and Pepsi have spent untold amounts of >> money on >>>> advertising and >>>>> continue to be at each other's throats, >> both with >>>> their flagship >>>>> brands and new ones (Gatorade vs Powerade). >> But soft >>>> drinks are a >>>>> lot simpler for the consumer to think about >> than >>>> computers. For >>>>> one, computers encompass software, hardware, >> and >>>> surrounding >>>>> infrastructure (network connections, devices >> they >>>> integrate with, >>>>> etc.). And those things can change >> independently from >>>> model to >>>>> model, from year to year, from place to place. >>>> It's tough to nail >>>>> down what features you can push on the >> consumer as THE >>>> answer to why >>>>> they should pay extra, when the consumer may >> not >>>> understand it, may >>>>> not care, or may be using your product or some >> of your >>>> products in a >>>>> totally unexpected way. Just think of iTunes >> running >>>> on Windows. >>>>> Is it good for Apple because it brings iTunes >> Store >>>> revenue, or is >>>>> it bad for them because it reduces the need >> for some >>>> people to >>>>> switch brands. Is it good for Apple >>>>> because it shows Windows users how different >> Apple >>>> software can be >>>>> or does it detract people from Apple's >> products >>>> for the same >>>>> reason? I think the fact that Apple has to >> some >>>> extent infiltrated >>>>> the hipster generation and made it a bit of a >> status >>>> symbol is quite >>>>> remarkable. >>>>> >>>>> Alexey >>>>> 2001 Honda CBR600F4i (CCS) >>>>> 1992 Kawasaki EX500 >>>>> http://azinger.blogspot.com >>>>> http://bsheet.sourceforge.net >>>>> http://wcollage.sourceforge.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Tue, 9/2/08, Joshua Marinacci >>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Joshua Marinacci >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>> Subject: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs PC - >> $1075 >>>> premium for a >>>>>> comparable Mac >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 1:37 PM >>>>>> But why is this the case? There are >> plenty of >>>> essentially >>>>>> 'commodity' >>>>>> products that have monopolistic >> competition and >>>> don't >>>>>> eventually >>>>>> collapse to 0% margin. Coke and Pepsi >> sell for >>>> many many >>>>>> times the >>>>>> price that pure costs would suggest. >> Automobiles >>>> are >>>>>> functionally >>>>>> equivalent in that any given category has >> the same >>>> basic >>>>>> features (all >>>>>> 4 door sedans will carry 4 or 5 people, >> all pickup >>>> trucks >>>>>> will carry >>>>>> furniture and dirt, etc.). And yet BMW >> has >>>> clearly figured >>>>>> out what >>>>>> things to improve in their cars that will >> convince >>>> someone >>>>>> to spend >>>>>> twice as much or more for a 4 door sedan, >> even >>>> though it >>>>>> doesn't cost >>>>>> them twice as much to produce (thus >> raising their >>>> profit >>>>>> margin). So >>>>>> what have car and sugar water makers >> figured out >>>> that >>>>>> computer makers >>>>>> haven't? Is there something intrinsic >> to >>>> computers that >>>>>> resist product >>>>>> differentiation? Clearly Apple (and to >> some >>>> extent Sony) >>>>>> have proven >>>>>> that it's not completely impossible. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Josh >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> My take on this is that most people >> don't >>>> care >>>>>> about those certain >>>>>>> ethereal features, such as >> "overall >>>>>> experience". Maybe it makes >>>>>>> sense to care about that, or maybe it >>>> doesn't, but >>>>>> just like >>>>>>> airlines are starting to feel a new >> hurt of >>>> competing >>>>>> on price and >>>>>>> specific features alone because of the >>>> internet and >>>>>> product search >>>>>>> engines like Google Products/Shopping, >>>> it's harder >>>>>> and harder for >>>>>>> anyone to demand a higher price >> without an >>>> extra >>>>>> number of checkmark >>>>>>> to justify it. The only other thing >> that >>>> people seem >>>>>> to be willing >>>>>>> to pay for is brand name. Besides, no >> one is >>>>>> impressed with a fancy >>>>>>> laptop anymore. Long live fancy >> phones! (for >>>> now) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >> >> >> > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
