So I think we come back to "there's no reason why they couldn't", but why haven't they? Is there something preventing Dell & HP from doing this? Are they too wedded to their corporate customers to properly serve the consumer market? Is it just a perception that there *aren't* any high margins to be made in computers until Apple came along and showed us all it's possible?
And yes, I've often thought of starting a computer company to do just exactly what you describe, but I know absolutely zip about hardware and I don't have the 100M$ it would take to start such a company. - J On Sep 3, 2008, at 3:17 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > > I blame the top brass at all PC companies, except Apple. > > If Dell wanted to, they could produce a notebook that: > > - Had no crap software pre-installed and came with solid hardware > guaranteed to have good drivers for linux. You can choose windows or > linux. The price difference between those choices is just not > relevant. It's about the hardware. > > - Had a well designed case that doesn't creak. One of the things that > really annoys me about dell notebooks is that they feel like they > could fall apart at any moment. They don't, but that doesn't help me > when I cringe every time the plastic creaks when I stuff one in a bag > or lift one up while its open. > > - Introduced a host of features even apple doesn't have: A black and > white screenmode (copied from the XO specs, which are, after all, > 'open source'), where readability -improves- in direct sunlight. You > can even spin this notebook as a 'lifestyle choice - let all those > other idiots wither away in offices, you're out in the sun!' without > seeming like a blowhard marketing jackass. There's no real equivalent > to the macbook air (full size, but light, even at the cost of ports > and the CD drive) in the PC market at all. Why isn't dell or sony > releasing one? Even a half arsed attempt would get some buyers. There > have to be people out there that want the options of a macbook but > don't buy apple. So far I haven't seen anyone that seriously buys > apple hardware and then installs windows on it, even though you > clearly can. Add a really good set of speakers (meshes nicely with the > outdoors theme). You're lagging apple's research, but do your best to > put as good a keyboard and trackpad as you can manage on the device. > > - Has a shiny name, and no serial code (no X500 stuff), and a unique > design aspect. If you're going to build a notebook that differentiates > on immeasurables, you need to make sure people take notice of the > success in the field. You can't trust just the ads as a consumer, and > you're now targeting people that do not care only about the Mhz, MB, > and screen size. I think this bit is something they all missed. Yes, > marketing departments try to add some differentiating gimmicks from > time to time, but I never get the feeling that a company's heart and > soul has been poured into coming up with a functional, yet unique > design. They simply don't get that this is important if you want to > elevate yourself above the spec rat race. > > You said it, Joshua: There's no reason why they couldn't do it. The > only way I see this changing is with upstarts. The software startup > market is getting a bit saturated, and I think this is a -great- area > to operate in. It's hard to get good deals for parts as a small > company, and it's even harder to custom-build notebooks, but at this > point dell, sony, HP, lenovo, and the rest is starting to get a bit > scared of apple's notebook market, and they are frothing at the mouth > thinking about how much they'd make if they could take a significant > piece of that pie home. If you can sell a few notebooks with the right > properties at ridiculous prices (because you're paying far too much to > order the parts, as a small company, and you need far bigger profit > margins), one of those big manufacturers might make like dell/ > alienware and buy you, knowing they can slash the price without losing > any margin, and make millions. There's your quick exit. > > I'm already helming a software startup, so for me the timing isn't > there. For any other reasons: What's your excuse? :) > > On Sep 2, 9:35 pm, Joshua Marinacci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> No. The question is why do HP and Dell only make low margin (often >> crappy) computers, and struggle to turn a profit, when Apple is able >> to make 20->30% margins on products that are functionally equivalent >> (desktop and laptop PCs that do the same basic things from a consumer >> perspective). This is a very interesting economics question that, I >> think, reveals a great deal about how computers are manufactured and >> sold, and suggests new opportunities for the existing hardware makers >> (or opportunities for new upstarts). Or it could reveal barriers to >> fixing the problem, such as certain features of the MS Windows >> monopoly that discourage creating Mac like computers. >> >> I find it an interesting topic. :) >> >> - Josh >> >> On Sep 2, 2008, at 12:28 PM, Alexey Zinger wrote: >> >> >> >>> But what is the question that answer is for? Is it that there >>> aren't enough easy ways to get a high-end laptop? Or that there >>> aren't enough choices in the high-end laptop market? >> >>> Alexey >>> 2001 Honda CBR600F4i (CCS) >>> 1992 Kawasaki EX500 >>> http://azinger.blogspot.com >>> http://bsheet.sourceforge.net >>> http://wcollage.sourceforge.net >> >>> --- On Tue, 9/2/08, Joshua Marinacci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>>> From: Joshua Marinacci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> Subject: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs PC - $1075 premium for a >>>> comparable Mac >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 2:59 PM >>>> So then it seems the answer is to turn computers into a more >>>> consumer >>>> friendly buying market. ie: reduce the number of available >>>> models, >>>> give them better names, maximize compatibility with the >>>> most common >>>> hardware/software/network-infrastructure/devices, then >>>> focus on >>>> advertising a few core features that are differentiators. >>>> This makes >>>> the choice an easier one for consumers by effectively >>>> making the >>>> computer a simpler choice (at least in terms of buying >>>> one). >> >>>> Clearly Apple has done this, so the question is why >>>> hasn't anyone >>>> else. It doesn't seem like it would be that difficult. >> >>>> - J >> >>>> On Sep 2, 2008, at 11:40 AM, Alexey Zinger wrote: >> >>>>> Coke and Pepsi have spent untold amounts of money on >>>> advertising and >>>>> continue to be at each other's throats, both with >>>> their flagship >>>>> brands and new ones (Gatorade vs Powerade). But soft >>>> drinks are a >>>>> lot simpler for the consumer to think about than >>>> computers. For >>>>> one, computers encompass software, hardware, and >>>> surrounding >>>>> infrastructure (network connections, devices they >>>> integrate with, >>>>> etc.). And those things can change independently from >>>> model to >>>>> model, from year to year, from place to place. >>>> It's tough to nail >>>>> down what features you can push on the consumer as THE >>>> answer to why >>>>> they should pay extra, when the consumer may not >>>> understand it, may >>>>> not care, or may be using your product or some of your >>>> products in a >>>>> totally unexpected way. Just think of iTunes running >>>> on Windows. >>>>> Is it good for Apple because it brings iTunes Store >>>> revenue, or is >>>>> it bad for them because it reduces the need for some >>>> people to >>>>> switch brands. Is it good for Apple >>>>> because it shows Windows users how different Apple >>>> software can be >>>>> or does it detract people from Apple's products >>>> for the same >>>>> reason? I think the fact that Apple has to some >>>> extent infiltrated >>>>> the hipster generation and made it a bit of a status >>>> symbol is quite >>>>> remarkable. >> >>>>> Alexey >>>>> 2001 Honda CBR600F4i (CCS) >>>>> 1992 Kawasaki EX500 >>>>> http://azinger.blogspot.com >>>>> http://bsheet.sourceforge.net >>>>> http://wcollage.sourceforge.net >> >>>>> --- On Tue, 9/2/08, Joshua Marinacci >>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>>>>> From: Joshua Marinacci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>> Subject: [The Java Posse] Re: Mac vs PC - $1075 >>>> premium for a >>>>>> comparable Mac >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 1:37 PM >>>>>> But why is this the case? There are plenty of >>>> essentially >>>>>> 'commodity' >>>>>> products that have monopolistic competition and >>>> don't >>>>>> eventually >>>>>> collapse to 0% margin. Coke and Pepsi sell for >>>> many many >>>>>> times the >>>>>> price that pure costs would suggest. Automobiles >>>> are >>>>>> functionally >>>>>> equivalent in that any given category has the same >>>> basic >>>>>> features (all >>>>>> 4 door sedans will carry 4 or 5 people, all pickup >>>> trucks >>>>>> will carry >>>>>> furniture and dirt, etc.). And yet BMW has >>>> clearly figured >>>>>> out what >>>>>> things to improve in their cars that will convince >>>> someone >>>>>> to spend >>>>>> twice as much or more for a 4 door sedan, even >>>> though it >>>>>> doesn't cost >>>>>> them twice as much to produce (thus raising their >>>> profit >>>>>> margin). So >>>>>> what have car and sugar water makers figured out >>>> that >>>>>> computer makers >>>>>> haven't? Is there something intrinsic to >>>> computers that >>>>>> resist product >>>>>> differentiation? Clearly Apple (and to some >>>> extent Sony) >>>>>> have proven >>>>>> that it's not completely impossible. >> >>>>>> - Josh >> >>>>>>> My take on this is that most people don't >>>> care >>>>>> about those certain >>>>>>> ethereal features, such as "overall >>>>>> experience". Maybe it makes >>>>>>> sense to care about that, or maybe it >>>> doesn't, but >>>>>> just like >>>>>>> airlines are starting to feel a new hurt of >>>> competing >>>>>> on price and >>>>>>> specific features alone because of the >>>> internet and >>>>>> product search >>>>>>> engines like Google Products/Shopping, >>>> it's harder >>>>>> and harder for >>>>>>> anyone to demand a higher price without an >>>> extra >>>>>> number of checkmark >>>>>>> to justify it. The only other thing that >>>> people seem >>>>>> to be willing >>>>>>> to pay for is brand name. Besides, no one is >>>>>> impressed with a fancy >>>>>>> laptop anymore. Long live fancy phones! (for >>>> now) > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
