Phil,

That is very good and pragmatic advice and well written. Thanks for taking
the time to write that.

Lloyd


On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Phil <[email protected]> wrote:

> First and foremost, management have delivery targets and budget
> restrictions. One thing that can be hard for coal-face perfectionists
> (of which I am one) to handle is the idea that the solution you are
> working on is 'good enough' - i.e. it satisfies the functional and
> contractual requirements and can be delivered on time and within
> budget. It is unrealistic to go into any situation and expect people
> to follow your lead simply because you believe it is the right
> approach. You have to sell your idea, put it in terms of the benefits
> to the project - management will always be wary of change for the sake
> of it, and rightly so.
>
> Second, a technique I use when making architectural decisions is to
> write a white paper on the subject. I identify a shortlist of
> alternative solutions and list the selection criteria to be used for
> deciding which option is to be adopted. Investigate each option with
> respect to the selection criteria with an open mind and document your
> findings. Do this with an open mind and the best solution will present
> itself. This approach can also be applied to proposing changes. If the
> white paper approach has been used then you can validate the original
> decision and see how your proposed change stacks up against it. If the
> white paper approach hasn't been used then you can produce one that
> covers the current approach, your proposal and at least one other
> option.
>
> Don't be tempted to skew this approach in favour of your personal
> preference, people will notice! You want the right decision, yes?
>
> The best thing to focus on is not whether a decision or approch is
> 'right' or 'wrong' from your perspective but whether it meets the
> technical requirements. I always listen to arguments made from a
> technical perspective, I have less respect for arguments that boil
> down to "we should do it this way because I think it is the right
> way". Be prepared to concede that when all factors are taken into
> consideration it may not be possible to adopt what you are proposing.
>
> Phil.
>
> On Jan 14, 6:34 pm, Robert Casto <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I don't think being right is over rated. It is going to depend on the
> people
> > you work with and the organization.
> >
> > One large company I worked for never had problems listening to their
> > engineers. Management actually deferred to their knowledge and expected
> them
> > to stand by what they said. Being right was very important and highly
> > valued.
> >
> > Other places I have worked, people get caught up in politics and spend a
> lot
> > of time trying to protect themselves. Being right is not as important as
> it
> > is being a team player. For engineers, this is very hard. They tend to
> think
> > in absolutes such as right and wrong, good and bad, correct and
> incorrect.
> > It is part of their analytical nature. They have no malice or ill will
> > toward other people. It is just perceived as such. Most of the engineers
> I
> > know don't care what you think about them. They want to contribute, add
> > value, and be told why their idea is not good if it is rejected. They are
> > insulted if you tell them it was a stupid idea. If you told them they
> look
> > funny and insult their mother, they couldn't care less.
> >
> > Anything you do that improves yourself is very worthwhile. Even if it
> only
> > helps a little bit, it is something that can help you in every part of
> your
> > life. Best of luck!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 1:03 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Being right is over rated, if you need to be right then you come across
> as
> > > difficult.
> >
> > > Just try to understand why others have their view it is then much
> easier to
> > > come up with solutions that everyone is happy with.
> >
> > > I found this book quite interesting though
> >
> > > How to get your ideas adopted:(and change the world) by anne miller
> >
> > > Shaine
> >
> > > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> > > ------------------------------
> > > *From: * Robert Casto <[email protected]>
> > > *Date: *Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:53:16 -0500
> > > *To: *<[email protected]>
> > > *Subject: *Re: [The Java Posse] Communication skills
> >
> > > I too have seen the problem described by Rakesh. I frequently find my
> > > recommendations ignored or dismissed for some reason. Then a couple
> weeks
> > > later they are proven true, but now I have to deal with the fallout.
> >
> > > I have attributed this to be an engineering problem. More specifically,
> > > people's problems with engineers. We come off sometimes as arrogant and
> lack
> > > people skills which makes it hard to communicate effectively. We are
> > > frequently not the one's in charge, and so while we might be right, the
> > > decision is being made based on many more factors than just our
> analysis.
> >
> > > Being right is not enough though it helps over time to get people to
> listen
> > > to you. You can try to improve your ability to communicate, but many
> times
> > > some other reason (such as money) trumps engineering. What I find most
> > > annoying is when management asks for an estimate, but then says there
> is
> > > only a certain amount of time available. They should ask if something
> can be
> > > done within a time frame and if not, what could be cut out so the rest
> can
> > > be done in that much time.
> >
> > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Viktor Klang <[email protected]
> >wrote:
> >
> > >> My recommendation is to try to see where the others are coming from.
> Why
> > >> they do what they do, and how you can interact with them without doing
> > >> unintentional harm. (honor, rank etc)
> > >> Being right isn't key, it's to collaborate to achieve the goals at
> hand.
> > >> And don't forget to have fun while you do it.
> >
> > >> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Rakesh <[email protected]
> >wrote:
> >
> > >>> Hi fellow Javaposse'ers!
> >
> > >>> turns out being right isn't enough. No, I'm not just talking about
> > >>> relationships!!
> >
> > >>> I'm struggling to get my point across in meetings with other
> > >>> developers/management and I think its me.
> >
> > >>> Anyone else feel the same? Anyone done anything about it? NLP?
> > >>> Presentation skills? Body language courses?
> >
> > >>> Cheers
> >
> > >>> RP
> >
> > >>> --
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> >
> > >> --
> > >> Viktor Klang
> > >> | "A complex system that works is invariably
> > >> | found to have evolved from a simple system
> > >> | that worked." - John Gall
> >
> > >> Blog: klangism.blogspot.com
> > >> Twttr: twitter.com/viktorklang
> > >> Code: github.com/viktorklang
> >
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> > > --
> > > Robert Casto
> > >www.IWantFreeShipping.com
> > > Find Amazon Filler Items easily!
> >
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> > - Show quoted text -
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