On 23 April 2010 20:12, Viktor Klang <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Jo Voordeckers > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> I've been through a few of these sanitizing processes at the different >> customers. The key to success is to go slow, introduce each component step >> by step, let the people learn to appreciate each of the changes, one at a >> time. It could take years to get where you want to be, but it's worth it! >> >> My suggested setup for your team: Eclipse(+WTP for tomcat deploys), SVN, >> Hudson, Maven (+repo), JUnit+Cobertura+Mockito, JIRA. If you're willing to >> spend a few extra bucks JRebel v3 cuts your code-build-deploy-test cycle by >> a huge factor, resulting in fewer redeploys, so ultimately fewer >> distractions and frustrations while developing web apps. >> > > Why SVN? There's like a biiiiiillion other SCMs other there that are > better. > >
True, but that's the least of their problems! > >> If supporting multiple IDE's is a goal, Maven is definitely the way to go. >> >> Good luck! >> >> Jo >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Lloyd Meinholz < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I am in a similar situation, maybe a rung or two down the evolutionary >>> ladder. I would consider trying to introduce Jira to manage the projects and >>> hudson and a CI server. Those are two great tools that can help the team >>> (developers and managers). I've also found FindBugs to be helpful in keeping >>> things in order. >>> >>> In the end though, I don't think that tools are going to help as much as >>> getting everyone on the same or similar page in regards to "best practices" >>> and development approaches. >>> >>> Lloyd >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Vince O'Sullivan <[email protected] >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> My current and ongoing role involves developing web based application >>>> for internal corporate use. The majority of applications are one-man >>>> end-to-end developments though some may have two or (for the really >>>> big stuff) three people involved. The people that I work with are >>>> good developers but have hideously outdated working practices (I still >>>> get handed Java classes with 300+ line methods, for instance). I want >>>> to clean the place up, starting with the development tools. Listed >>>> below are some of the tools that we currently use for software >>>> development: >>>> >>>> Operating System: >>>> Developing on Windows XP on Dell hardware (laptops and desktops). >>>> Deploying to Web app servers on Unix boxes. >>>> No option to change this and anyway, it's the least of my problems. >>>> >>>> Archiving and Version Control: >>>> CVS - Getting everyone to use it was a key achievement for me in >>>> 2008. >>>> I think I'd be lynched if I now said "Actually, I think we should >>>> be using git/Mercurial/Subversion/etc.". >>>> CVS has the advantage of being centrally hosted by the company. >>>> I'm not sure I want the extra >>>> overhead of running my own alternative but maybe. >>>> >>>> Build Tool: >>>> Ant - Occasionally hand built but usually Eclipse generated. >>>> >>>> Automated End-to-End Builds: >>>> I can do them (in a couple of stages), others just export a war >>>> file from eclipse and load it onto the server and... >>>> >>>> IDE: >>>> Eclipse - I use the latest development build but most here use >>>> whatever the latest company approved standard release was when they >>>> received their current machine. >>>> >>>> Language: >>>> Java: I've dabbled in Scala and Groovy. Several other people here >>>> are aware non-Java languages (other than basic) exist. >>>> Currently version 1.5. I got 1.6 loaded onto the server box >>>> last year but we haven't developed to it yet. >>>> I cannot hand off projects in other languages to the >>>> maintenance groups. >>>> >>>> Testing: >>>> JUnit: I use it. The others are suitably impressed but not >>>> convinced it's worth "coding everything twice". >>>> JMock: I use and love it but until the others even start using >>>> JUnit, there's no sense in pushing it. >>>> >>>> Web Stuff: >>>> HTML and CSS: Hand made (by software developers like me) with many >>>> bastardised cut and paste inclusions. >>>> Followed with long sessions of UA where they kick back all the >>>> stuff that looks like it was designed by >>>> a five-year-old in the 1990s. >>>> >>>> Web Hosting: >>>> Internally on a corporately maintained and backed up Unix box >>>> running Tomcat 6. >>>> >>>> More Web Stuff: >>>> An unholy mixture of JSP and JSF, bulked out with Primefaces for >>>> some extra glitzy bling. >>>> >>>> Database: >>>> Oracle: Yay, we finally got the last developer to stop using MS >>>> Access last year (by banning it)! >>>> (That guy only writes Excel VBA so he's out of the loop anyway.) >>>> It's a corporate database and very well maintained though I haven't >>>> figured out what planet the DBAs are from. >>>> >>>> Other stuff: >>>> FileZilla, PuTTY, Beyond Compare, SQL Developer, TortoiseCVS.... >>>> the list goes on. >>>> >>>> So. This lots does work (more or less) and (I don't think) that it's >>>> as bad as it sounds, but it really isn't a good situation. What I'm >>>> looking for is ideas on how to clean all this development environment >>>> up. It's a mess of good ideas that are currently badly integrated. >>>> There are just too many different and independent components to this >>>> environment to persuade people that adopting it is progress, and the >>>> learning curve is endless. >>>> >>>> I'm looking for -sensible - ideas on how to clean all this up. What >>>> technologies to drop or swap and how best to create a complete >>>> integrated development environment (in the non-eclipse/NetBeans >>>> sense). >>>> >>>> Any suggestions welcome. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "The Java Posse" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "The Java Posse" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> - Jo >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Viktor Klang > | "A complex system that works is invariably > | found to have evolved from a simple system > | that worked." - John Gall > > Akka - the Actor Kernel: Akkasource.org > Twttr: twitter.com/viktorklang > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > -- Kevin Wright mail/google talk: [email protected] wave: [email protected] skype: kev.lee.wright twitter: @thecoda -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
