I totally agree with these comments. The problem is that changing is a big cost you incur now, and not changing is a cost you pay over time and sometime in the future. Getting approval and funding for all the testing, deployment, and any development work needed is extremely difficult. It is easier to get the time any money approved for new features, business initiatives, or resolving bugs. Hence, nothing gets upgraded until the cost is greater than not doing it.
On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 9:59 AM, jitesh dundas <[email protected]> wrote: > I agree with you on this. However, I wonder if upgrading from jdk1.4 > to 1.5 will hurt your client s in anyway..Jdk1.5 is really good(i have > never used starteam so no comments on this).. > You could miss out on a lot of supported functionalities due to this.. > Just curious, why will the client oppose a jdk upgrade? are need in > need of things besides jre? > > Seems like your client is very demanding! good luck with that :)... > > Regards, > Jitesh Dundas > > On 4/25/10, Robert Casto <[email protected]> wrote: > > Now I feel really bad. We are using StarTeam and Java 1.4. Been trying > for a > > long time to switch but there is a lot of resistance. To be fair, it is > not > > from the business but the customers where the issue lies. Changing is not > > free and so there is a lot of resistance to it. That means applications > have > > a very long life span and those old tools will probably still be in use 4 > or > > 5 years from now. Hard to switch when your customers don't want you to. > > > > On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 3:25 AM, Neil Bartlett <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> None of the technology you're using sounds that bad, frankly. > >> > >> CVS? Okay it's not sexy, but at least you're not on Starteam. You're > >> allowed to use Eclipse, and a recent version as well.... great! At > >> least you're not forced to use some obsolete commercial IDE. And Java > >> 5, are you kidding?? I've worked for companies that still used Java > >> 1.3 in 2008! I would have done anything to be allowed to use Java 5... > >> > >> It sounds like your only real problem is the lack of testing. > >> > >> Neil > >> > >> On Apr 23, 1:43 pm, "Vince O'Sullivan" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > My current and ongoing role involves developing web based application > >> > for internal corporate use. The majority of applications are one-man > >> > end-to-end developments though some may have two or (for the really > >> > big stuff) three people involved. The people that I work with are > >> > good developers but have hideously outdated working practices (I still > >> > get handed Java classes with 300+ line methods, for instance). I want > >> > to clean the place up, starting with the development tools. Listed > >> > below are some of the tools that we currently use for software > >> > development: > >> > > >> > Operating System: > >> > Developing on Windows XP on Dell hardware (laptops and desktops). > >> > Deploying to Web app servers on Unix boxes. > >> > No option to change this and anyway, it's the least of my problems. > >> > > >> > Archiving and Version Control: > >> > CVS - Getting everyone to use it was a key achievement for me in > >> > 2008. > >> > I think I'd be lynched if I now said "Actually, I think we should > >> > be using git/Mercurial/Subversion/etc.". > >> > CVS has the advantage of being centrally hosted by the company. > >> > I'm not sure I want the extra > >> > overhead of running my own alternative but maybe. > >> > > >> > Build Tool: > >> > Ant - Occasionally hand built but usually Eclipse generated. > >> > > >> > Automated End-to-End Builds: > >> > I can do them (in a couple of stages), others just export a war > >> > file from eclipse and load it onto the server and... > >> > > >> > IDE: > >> > Eclipse - I use the latest development build but most here use > >> > whatever the latest company approved standard release was when they > >> > received their current machine. > >> > > >> > Language: > >> > Java: I've dabbled in Scala and Groovy. Several other people here > >> > are aware non-Java languages (other than basic) exist. > >> > Currently version 1.5. I got 1.6 loaded onto the server box > >> > last year but we haven't developed to it yet. > >> > I cannot hand off projects in other languages to the > >> > maintenance groups. > >> > > >> > Testing: > >> > JUnit: I use it. The others are suitably impressed but not > >> > convinced it's worth "coding everything twice". > >> > JMock: I use and love it but until the others even start using > >> > JUnit, there's no sense in pushing it. > >> > > >> > Web Stuff: > >> > HTML and CSS: Hand made (by software developers like me) with many > >> > bastardised cut and paste inclusions. > >> > Followed with long sessions of UA where they kick back all the > >> > stuff that looks like it was designed by > >> > a five-year-old in the 1990s. > >> > > >> > Web Hosting: > >> > Internally on a corporately maintained and backed up Unix box > >> > running Tomcat 6. > >> > > >> > More Web Stuff: > >> > An unholy mixture of JSP and JSF, bulked out with Primefaces for > >> > some extra glitzy bling. > >> > > >> > Database: > >> > Oracle: Yay, we finally got the last developer to stop using MS > >> > Access last year (by banning it)! > >> > (That guy only writes Excel VBA so he's out of the loop anyway.) > >> > It's a corporate database and very well maintained though I haven't > >> > figured out what planet the DBAs are from. > >> > > >> > Other stuff: > >> > FileZilla, PuTTY, Beyond Compare, SQL Developer, TortoiseCVS.... > >> > the list goes on. > >> > > >> > So. This lots does work (more or less) and (I don't think) that it's > >> > as bad as it sounds, but it really isn't a good situation. What I'm > >> > looking for is ideas on how to clean all this development environment > >> > up. It's a mess of good ideas that are currently badly integrated. > >> > There are just too many different and independent components to this > >> > environment to persuade people that adopting it is progress, and the > >> > learning curve is endless. > >> > > >> > I'm looking for -sensible - ideas on how to clean all this up. What > >> > technologies to drop or swap and how best to create a complete > >> > integrated development environment (in the non-eclipse/NetBeans > >> > sense). > >> > > >> > Any suggestions welcome. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> > Groups > >> "The Java Posse" group. > >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > <javaposse%[email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > > > >> . > >> > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > >> groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "The Java Posse" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > <javaposse%[email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > > > >> . > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Robert Casto > > www.IWantFreeShipping.com > > Find Amazon Filler Items easily! > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "The Java Posse" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- Robert Casto www.IWantFreeShipping.com Find Amazon Filler Items easily! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. 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