IntelliJ is even worse! Try clicking in a bit of whitespace, or cursoring down from the end of a long line The caret just hangs there, expectantly, looking like it's about to fall, instead of snapping to the end of the last valid character on that line.
(yes, I know it's configurable, but it's not the default) Now try it on a Mac, where you don't have an `end` key On 1 July 2010 16:36, Rakesh <[email protected]> wrote: > guys, can I recommend you start using a real IDE like Intellij? > > In the last 5 years of Java development, the use of spaces or tabs has > never come up. > > I really don't get this thread. > > Rakesh > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Kevin Wright <[email protected]> > wrote: > > It's basic ecology... > > Tabs take up fewer characters than multiple spaces > > fewer chars = smaller files = faster checkins, etc. > > I wonder what the carbon footprint is of manufacturing all the HDD used > > globally to store superfluous spaces? > > > > > > On 1 July 2010 16:20, Tor Norbye <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> On Jul 1, 2:48 am, Mark Volkmann <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > I'm surprised that all the replies to this thread are in favor of tabs > >> > over spaces. > >> > >> I think many of us just don't feel like reopening this one; we've > >> discussed this exact topic at least once and probably more than once > >> on this forum, and certainly many times elsewhere. > >> > >> I predict that we will not reach agreement, and that this thread will > >> go on forever, so I will just state my position once since I didn't > >> see anyone else state the case for spaces only - and then I'll leave > >> the thread alone. > >> > >> I am aware of two arguments for the mixed style (which only its > >> supporters refer to as "The One True Indentation" Style or TOTI): > >> > >> 1. Tabs for indentation lets you quickly indent one level and dedent > >> one level with the Tab character and the Delete key. Nobody seriously > >> uses that argument anymore since all IDEs handle this automatically > >> regardless of style -- e.g. pressing Tab is going to indent one level, > >> and Shift+Tab is going to dedent one level. > >> > >> 2. "Users can set their own preferred indent size". This seems to be > >> the main argument for the mixed style now, but: I just don't buy that > >> use case. I guess the intention is to either (a) let you avoid > >> horizontal scrolling if you're looking at horribly deep code, or (b) > >> on a tiny screen, or (c) let you view code at an indentation level > >> that is most comfortable to you yourself, if you are attached to say a > >> 2-space indent, 3-space indent or an 8-space indent. > >> > >> For (a), rather than have an indent policy in your codebase to handle > >> this, you shouldn't have any code that is so wide that it cannot be > >> viewed properly with the standard (4 space in Java) indentation level. > >> Break it up into subroutines. This will address (b) as well, though I > >> don't think this is an important use case. This is 2010; people don't > >> write code on tiny terminals anymore but solid IDEs on decent screens. > >> > >> For (c), I'm sorry but indentation size is only one tiny aspect of > >> code style. Just because you can make a codefile indent in a familiar > >> way, you're still going to have to view and accept the rest of the > >> formatting in the file - spaces around operators and no spaces inside > >> parentheses, no left braces on newlines, etc. Expanding tabs isn't > >> going to make you feel at home; if you insist on reading code in your > >> own style, you need to fully format it. Hopefully IDEs will soon let > >> you read code formatted using your own style but behind the scenes > >> retain the original code style and even transform your edits back to > >> the original style. But for now, standard accepted practice is to > >> continue whatever coding style the original source file is in (and > >> make complete source file reformatting changes only as a separate > >> dedicated checkin, not as part of other file edits), and playing > >> tricks with indent size isn't going to make this meaningfully easier. > >> > >> As somebody else said, spaces and tabs are both invisible, so it's > >> pretty easy for people to accidentally do the wrong thing. The minute > >> somebody has indented one line with spaces in your scheme, it will > >> look terrible for anyone trying to view the file with nonstandard tab > >> settings (because for standard Java, one indent level is 4 spaces, so > >> one tab = 4 spaces, whereas most traditional command line tools use 1 > >> tab = 8 spaces). Yes, some of us use editor support for visualizing > >> the differences -- Reinier uses semi-visible "show nonprintable > >> chars"; I use a plugin to have tabs highlighted in red. But most > >> developers don't do this, and it's pretty easy for things to > >> accidentally break, when people use tools to make quick edits -- e.g. > >> a file merge program, a different IDE where you haven't configured > >> your settings yet -- and suddenly you have an inconsistently indented > >> file. > >> > >> Without a more compelling reason than being able to indent code at > >> your own depth, I just don't think mixing spaces and tabs is worth the > >> potential trouble. > >> > >> -- Tor > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "The Java Posse" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > . > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Kevin Wright > > > > mail/google talk: [email protected] > > wave: [email protected] > > skype: kev.lee.wright > > twitter: @thecoda > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "The Java Posse" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<javaposse%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- Kevin Wright mail/google talk: [email protected] wave: [email protected] skype: kev.lee.wright twitter: @thecoda -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
