I thought the whole basis of the lawsuit was JIT compilation, mixing
and matching native code with an interpreter...


The language, I suspect could be protected as free speech.  After all,
GWT isn't being attacked here!

On Tuesday, September 7, 2010, Reinier Zwitserloot <[email protected]> wrote:
> How is increasing the general argument for any would-be programmer to
> learn java in any way or form "a free ride"?
>
> If you follow lambda-dev and friends it becomes rather obvious that
> the amount of resources oracle pours into freely available java stuff
> is quite modest.
>
> What, exactly, is google "stealing" from oracle here? Java-the-
> language? That was some random silly syntax slapped together by
> Gosling and friends back in the day as an afterthought. It's not
> novel, genius, or a big deal. Java as a platform has been successful
> because of everything but the language, but those are exactly the
> things google has NOT taken: They have NOT taken the standard library
> (they took harmony). They've NOT taken the novel, genius, serious
> investment JVM which its amazing ability to run code quickly. They
> developed all that themselves.
>
> Sure, google is grandstanding. But at the end of the day, they owe Sun
> or Oracle bupkis.
>
> On Sep 7, 7:01 am, Miroslav Pokorny <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 2:20 PM, Casper Bang <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > On Sep 7, 2:31 am, Miroslav Pokorny <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> > > In the end i am more disappointed in Google than Oracle. I know I got a
>> > good
>> > > deal and lot of gifts from Sun and I did not help contribute my bit to
>> > keep
>> > > their guardianship of Java going by sponsoring or contributing back to
>> > their
>> > > business. I suppose I am one of the many millions of "parasites" who is
>> > now
>> > > complaining because some worry the "free" ride may be over.
>>
>> > Ah but then you can be happy that now you can contribute back by
>> > buying very expensive Oracle database licences. Sun's failure to
>> > capitalize is not necessarily tied to Java being open source. Are
>> > there really any software shops who would not be willing to pay for
>> > state-of-the-art tools, good documentation etc., I doubt it. In any
>> > even, Sun maintained that the Java side was profitable.
>>
>> Dont confuse my argument, i just find Google's stance hypocritical. When
>> they said its an attack on open source, they really meant its an attack on
>> their ability to get a free ride...
>>
>> > >If Google really
>> > > loved Open Source why didnt they do the benevolent thing and just buy and
>> > > sponsor Java development into the future, when they had the opportunity.
>>
>> > That's what many of us hoped, primarily because Google seems to have
>> > the drive and the money to move the art forward.
>>
>> > > Truth be told they tried to be smart playing legal with lots of laywers
>> > and
>> > > know its come back to bite them.
>>
>> > Lots of lawyers? Could you explain?
>>
>> Google have always been careful with their labelling and marketting of
>> Android. It is quite obvious that this approach had a lot of legal
>> consultation and advice from business types who wished to follow this path
>> rather than just buying Sun. As mentioned in the podcast, they knew that a
>> questioning of this would occur sometime in the future, it was just a
>> question of when. In the end, they decided to get fancy and we have the
>> outcome that we are all witnessing today.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > > They tried to be cheap and avoid
>> > > contributing back to the community by coughing up the one thing the
>> > > community or Sun really needed - the cash. Its not as if Google dont have
>> > > the money, they always seem to have money and millions of it to buy some
>> > > advertising related company, aka Double click.
>>
>> > I don't think Google owes Sun, they may piggyback of the language
>> > syntax but 1) Oracle has nothing in their portfolio that rivals
>> > Android and 2) for many years Google have indeed contributed back by
>> > means of JSR's and experts like Bloch, Gafter etc. You insinuate they
>> > tried to be cheap, albeit by all accounts the design behind Android
>> > was primarily driven by technical and economical considerations. It's
>> > possible we don't know the full story, Fabrizio Giudici among others
>> > have hinted at that. Hopefully we will know soon.
>>
>> Josh, Neal etc are all brilliant, but one cannot compare $7B to whatever
>> contributions and efforts they extend.
>>
>> > If Java was truly open,
>> > we would not even be talking about this parenting thing, we would be
>> > talking about our brothers and sisters in the community.
>>
>> Maybe so, thats another argument for another day, but my original reply was
>> to the label "this is an attach on open source".
>>
>> It Oracle did not buy Sun, and nobody bought it in the end, what else could
>> be said of those who made billions using Java, its community and yet in its
>> time of need did not want to be benevolent ? Open Source is about people,
>> companies giving and taking, sometimes we give a library, or patch here and
>> there. Bigger entities gain considerably more from open source by
>> definition, because they benefit from libraries and make more incoming. The
>> same argument can be said of taxation responsibilities, we all share the
>> benefits of government a

-- 
Kevin Wright

mail / gtalk / msn : [email protected]
pulse / skype: kev.lee.wright
twitter: @thecoda

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