On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 12:42:48 +0200, Casper Bang <[email protected]>
wrote:
First of all, as brilliant as Page might be, we should
not necessarily assume he is a VM engineer. Secondly, I think we must
Hey, men, we're talking about a strategic decision for a company. I could
cite a number of CEO of italians corporates that don't have a clue on
strategy, and in fact effects are clear. I don't believe Google it's like
that, since they're going well. But, above all, we're not discussing only
about Page's mind: it was a discussion with some engineers (Page has been
involved in the news because it's negating it was aware of the discussion,
and an email proves it isn't true - but I don't care at all about this
aspect of the matter).
So it's possible that Google technically could've used a hybrid of
Hotspot,
but that's not the same as saying Dalvik is a workaround of a licensing
issue or that it doesn't have other merits (I.e. trace-based JIT's and
registred based VM's are assumed more efficient than method based JIT's
and
stack based VM's).
I respect your opinion. But it isn't the opinion of Page since he says
"we'd saved a lot of time and money should have we adopted Sun's
technology".
However, the King of Android (Rubin), advised Page way back in 2005 (page
22) that C# might be an alternative (which, unlike Java, is open spec
rather than open source). We can only assume that Lindholm talked Rubin
out
What's the point of open specs in this point without an open
implementation? You don't save a lot of time and money just out of open
specs if you have to reimplement everything. And there should be Mono, in
theory. As they bought a company that was developing the ancestor of
Dalvik, they could have done the same for C#.
of this idea. Perhaps Google feared the prospect of upsetting Microsoft
greater than over upsetting Sun, although I think the more likely cause
is
Google wanting to bootstrap off the existing Java community, which they
have traditionally been aligned with, contributed to and hired people
from.
Well, so we're saying that Java is hugely popular, at the point that it's
the best bootstrapping option. Fair enough for me :-)
I'm confused, when you now say "Java", do you then refer to the 3
official
Sun runtimes (JME/JSE/JEE) or just the language as a medium of
expression?
The core technologies. Certainly I'm not talking of running Android on
JME. With a business collaboration, they could have defined Android as a
fourth edition of Java. Note that I'm not blaming exclusively Google for
not making the deal. We don't know details, and it's certainly possible
that Sun missed a big opportunity: Android was clearly the JME killer, JME
was one of the most profitable parts of JAva for Sun and they weren't
smart enough to understand that JME was going to die because of its own
bureaucracy and the flawed relationship with phone manufacturer.
You imply that Google think Java is bad, yet Google based Android on Java
so I am not really sure what you are trying to say here. I guess maybe
you
mean to say that a subset of the JSE could've been used instead. Perhaps
you are right, I don't think we will ever find out, since Sun/Oracle have
shown little interest in creating a modern mobile platform.
No, no, I'm implying that Google thinks that Java, licensing apart, is
excellent both on the VM concept and the language aspect, which counters
all the usual Java bashing arguments around.
Admittedly, I'm having a hard time seeing actual technological arguments
here.
Sorry, you don't want to see the point. The cited facts proved that Page
and Google engineering thought that Java is an excellent technology. Since
they are top level professionals, this is a technological argument.
Otherwise, you must imply that they are not so competent. I don't see any
third option here.
--
Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager
Tidalwave s.a.s. - "We make Java work. Everywhere."
[email protected]
http://tidalwave.it - http://fabriziogiudici.it
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java
Posse" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
