"SmokingAPipe" wrote : I put in:  <h:messages globalOnly="false"/> after the 
table, and get no messages.  I also turned off all the validation in the 
various classes.  This is 99% a bug in the JSF implementation.

I think you need to produce a simple runnable test case then.

anonymous wrote : There's no reason why it shouldn't hit the "update model 
values" phase, because if it were dying in the process validations phase, there 
would be some type of message, right?

There would be a message in h:messages, yes.

anonymous wrote : Surely with all the advanced features of Seam and JSF there's 
some way for it tell me which phase it's in, what it's doing, etc?  In any 
normal programming system you can trace the values of variables.

Sorry, I'm not in front of the right computer atm so can't give you details but 
you can do this by attaching a debugger into myfaces.

Also, I've just noticed that you are using tomahawk.  You would be much better 
stripping all that out and reproducing this with just h: components

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