Right s:validate works to circumvent the problem in my trivial example.  I have 
more problems when trying to evaluate objects usually in EL when choosing to 
render them or not.

I end up having to check the value of the primary key of the entity instead of 
the entity itself.  For example, if had some dependent controls and did not 
want to render the other controls until previous ones where filled in.


  | <h:inputText value="#{foo.bar}">
  |    <a4j:support event="onblur" actionListener="#{backing.submitFoo}"/>
  | </h:inputText>
  | <h:inputText value="#{goo.bar}"
  | rendered="#{foo.Id == null}"/>

It would be more intuitive to just say
rendered="#{foo == null}"

I understand why I can't but its misleading to a newcomer 



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