Hi guys,

thanks for the responses. I've looked some more at this and I see that this is 
what hibernate does under the hood by using, as Nick said, the 
"Hibernate.initialize(Object proxy) method.

I agree that "terrible" is probably overstated :-), but I definately think it 
is unintuitive and probably at least ... poor. For example, why would you ever 
want to call


  | Collection orders = user.getOrders
  | 

and not use orders for something.

anonymous wrote : 
  | It's conceivable you are just going to pass that refererence around and not 
yet access any of the data in the collection.
  | anonymous wrote : 
  |   | 
  |   | That's where I think I disagree with you. I can't think of any 
situation where this might be the case. Surely, if you call get on something, 
you expect to get it back initialized if we're in the session.
  |   | 
  |   | At any rate, I don't mind at all, and I very much appreciate the help 
and I would just reiterate, clear documentation will help others avoid this 
non-obvious problem.
  |   | 
  |   | thanks again,
  |   | binario

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