look dude, get the integrated jboss-tomcat stack you are running non-optimized out of stack, period.
come back when you have set it up, or don't we don't care, marcf |-----Original Message----- |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:09 PM |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Subject: [JBoss-user] Redux of Performance Issues | | |For reasons unknown, this message hasn't been going out to the |list. Trying |again. | |-- | |Okay, I've clearly managed to piss off a few people by my concerns about |JBoss performance. | |Let me start out by saying that I'd be more than happy to get my |application |working speedily under JBoss. Orion's documentation is poor at best, and |JBoss is fully open-source. I have a great deal of respect for some of |JBoss's technology (the verifier and deployer are probably the best I've |seen), and where it's coming from. I chose JBoss for the initial |development because of its reputation and my own interests. | |That said, if the performance I'm getting out of JBoss is the best I can |expect, or, at least, the best I can manage to get, then I |absolutely cannot |use it. Not because I think it 'sucks rocks', because it doesn't, but |simply because it will not support the user load I need it to in |any sort of |cost-effective manner. Some of you would probably be just as happy to see |me go somewhere else, from the tone of your emails, but I'd personally |rather find a way to get the performance out of JBoss, for this or other |projects. | |And, ultimately, it seems as if the performance I'm asking for is |relatively |reasonable. I expect a certain amount of overhead in EJB performance, and |I'm not asking to duplicate the speed of a bean-only implementation. But |supporting a maximum of 25 concurrent users on a decent (if not maxed-out) |server seems ... suspiciously slow. | |It may be that I've missed some settings to speed things up. It |may be that |our application's architecture is better suited to Orion than to JBoss. |Whatever it is, I'd like to find out. So I've joined the JBoss list, and |I'm here to ask some questions. I'm not trying to promote Orion, or insult |JBoss. I like bits of both of them, and the reasons for that, I can get |into another day. Ultimately, however, I'd rather support JBoss as an |open-source appserver, if I can. | |-- | |Now, on to the details. Some of you pointed out, and rightly so, that I |hadn't provided much in the way of details of what I've tried, which is |true. I wanted to start off by finding out if the kind of numbers I was |talking about seemed realistic or not, based on the experience of people |who'd spent more time with JBoss than I have, but it's probably fair to say |that you couldn't really say without knowing a lot more about my |application. So let's get into a few details. | |Let's start with versions. I did some of my original EJB |experimentation on |JBoss-2.4.1. We started developing a project on JBoss-2.4.1a w/ Embedded |Tomcat, which was the latest JBoss/Tomcat grouping at the time. We started |noticing performance concerns then. When Tomcat 4 came out, we moved to |JBoss-2.4.3 w/ Embedded Catalina, so that we could try a few things, and |found it not to be slower, so we stayed with it. | |After we reached a point where we needed to see better performance, we did |some optimizing of our app with a profiler, and tried JBoss 2.4.3 w/ Resin, |which we already knew to be fast. That gave us a minor speed |boost, but not |very much, leading me to believe that JBoss might be the cause of some of |our performance. By comparison, Orion 1.5.2 seems to be very much faster. | |All of this is running on Windows 2000. The versions of Tomcat are 3.2.3 |and 4.0, as far as I know. The version of Resin is the latest |version as of |a few weeks ago, I'd have to go check. If it's important, I will. | |Processor speed depended, but developers are working, largely, on |PIII-700MHzs, and we did most of our load-testing on a Ghz P4. | |Tuned updates are on, jaws debug is off, and logging was set as low as we |really could expect it to be. | |Our performance numbers were derived in several ways - by using the |Microsoft Web Application Stress tool (since we've used that in the past, |and haven't yet found a better alternative; if you have suggestions, I'm |happy to hear them), watching memory/processor load on the box |being tested, |junit test times and subjective experience. | |Our initial concerns came out of JUnit test times. Our EJB tests |(which are |pretty thorough, I'll admit) are taking several seconds, whereas the time |required to test a hand-rolled bean solution was usually well, well under a |second. HttpUnit tests are taking tens of seconds, instead of seconds. |This began to concern me, but we didn't need performance at an early stage, |and I knew I could replace Tomcat and/or JBoss if necessary. | |Once we started to use the Web Application Stress Tool, though, we started |to get really concerned. After some profiling to speed a few things up, we |were unable to get more than about 20 simultaneous users on the application |without slowing things down significantly, getting Time To Last |Byte on some |of the more intense pages up past ten seconds, which is far too long. Even |running Resin and JBoss together was getting us only up to 25. The |processor usage on the server while the load test was running was |practically solid at 100% for the bulk of the test and the JVM doesn't seem |to be using up all the memory it has already, so we didn't increase the JVM |memory space. | |By comparison, under Orion, I can get 350 users on the same |application, and |the processor load is only up around 65%. | |This concerns me. The application is going to be used by quite |probably 200 |users at once, possibly double or triple that, on a regular basis, and |perhaps up to 2000 users under peak loads. That's not a |massively-heavy web |application, in my mind. Not being able to get past 25 users |under JBoss is |just not going to cut it, so if I have to put up with poor documentation, |closed source, and shelling out for an orion deployment license to get the |speed I need, I will. | |But if you all can recommend alternatives to get speed out of JBoss, I'd |love to hear it. | |-- | |There's been a number of suggestions to try JBoss/Jetty. I'll give it a |shot, although I don't know much about Jetty. I'd also like to throw |together a simple performance test that I could use to demonstrate my issue |a lot better than the existing application, but I don't know if |I'm going to |have time to do that, particularly since I also want to evaluate the |newly-free HP-AS to get some feeling for it in comparison to both JBoss and |Orion. It may turn out that we go with Orion for this project simply to |save time figuring out our other options. If we can get acceptable |performance out of Orion in the near term, it may be more cost-effective |than spending time diagnosing our JBoss issues. | |If there are suggestions on how we can increase our performance, |or requests |for more information, I'm open to hear them. Even if I don't have time to |implement them on this project, I'd love to know how I could make use of |JBoss on future projects without encountering this kind of performance |issue. | |Thanks in advance, | | - Geoffrey | |__________________________________________________________ |Geoffrey Wiseman: Internet Applications Manager |Medium One |t. 416.977.2101 x. 529 |http://www.mediumone.com/ |__________________________________________________________ |Think it. Build it. Work it. | | | |_______________________________________________ |JBoss-user mailing list |[EMAIL PROTECTED] |https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user _______________________________________________ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
