Danese, It is good to see you respond (I just guessed on the email address).
Yes Marc does represent JBoss, just like Linus represents Linux, and yes The JBoss Group is a for-profit company. I think you have missed the point of what I have said. The JBoss Group is not really a member of the free JBoss community that you have defined, as no one gets paid to develop JBoss, and no one pays for JBoss licenses (LGPL). JBoss works like many other OpenSource projects in the wild (as opposed to corporate managed project like OpenOffice and Netscape) in that the main developers make money selling advice about the product with books, training, consulting and support. The only difference is the JBoss developers are way more organized. So, back to your example about Apache, JBoss is the equivalent of Tomcat except there is no 'foundation'. Do you charge Apache because some of the developers sell support contracts and books on the side? Are you suggesting that if the core developers started a JBoss foundation Sun would give the foundation a scholarship? What would this foundation do? The code of JBoss is owned by the individual developers, and licensed to the world under LGPL. In the end you ask the question, "can you see a way to help the free JBoss community without giving the for-profit members of that community a free ride?" I'll ask a counter question. How can you prevent for-profit companies from getting a "free ride" off the Tomcat certification? IBM could choose to stop selling Websphere and redistribute Tomcat, and as we all know IBM makes it's real money off of services. -dain Danese Cooper wrote: > Hi Dain, > > Well, I wasn't trying to create FUD. I've said many times that I > believe Sun should figure out how to accomodate JBoss. However, my > comments in this interview came directly from the horse's mouth. Marc > Fleury himself told me (at JBossONE) that he was running a for-profit > business and that the "Apache compromise" wouldn't help JBoss. > > I gather from what you write here that there is also a community that > has donated to JBoss as an open source project and that Fleury's firm is > just one for-profit community member? When I was at JBossONE, I > definitely heard Marc present as if he represented all of JBoss! > > Well, I imagine that the JBoss non-profit community would be eligible to > take advantage of the new JCP rules about TCKs and scholarship, but I'm > unclear how that will apply to the for-profit concern Marc actually > represents. > > Let's see if we can work it out by thinking about Apache. > > Apache creates a Web Server, which includes the TomCat Servlett Engine. > Apache is obviously non-profit, and so is eligible for the scholarship > fund. IBM has a product based on Apache called WebSphere that they sell > for money. IBM is in this case not acting as a non-profit. Sun would > expect that IBM pay for the TCK support they receive for WebSphere. TCK > support is not a profit center for Sun. The offer to non-profits is > motivated by a desire to continue to promote the value proposition of > Java as it moves into the Open Source world, but it simply doesn't > extend to for-profits. Small for-profits will definitely want it to > (for obvious reasons). > > Can you see a way to help the free JBoss community without giving the > for-profit members of that community a free ride? > > Danese > > On Friday, September 27, 2002, at 03:44 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: > >> This has been passed around before. Danese simply doesn't know what >> she is talking about. JBoss is free. You all use it for free. It is >> free just like Linux, GNU stuff, Apache, MySQL, Sun's OpenOffice and >> so on. We use the LGPL license. >> >> Now the guys that write JBoss like me, make money on the side >> supporting people that want to pay for support, just like the people >> that work on the above projects. We also offer a Certification >> program for others that want to offer support for JBoss. We are not >> Certifying app servers. >> >> This is all FUD. Danese should be ashamed of herself for being the >> source of this FUD. I have always thought better of her. >> >> -dain ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf _______________________________________________ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
